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21st Century Baker's Tent (azartiz.com)
273 points by oblib on June 14, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 163 comments



That's going to be a condensation fest in there.

Pretty sure The Outdoor Gear Review did a real world test of something very similar. They 'work' in that they do heat up, but they're a lot of work and get extremely sweaty when made from those non-breathable plastic survival sheets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw

For a more in depth look at using more 'appropriate' modern materials, 'Simon, A Bloke in the Woods' has a decent series on making a Baker Tent from scratch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U


When I was a kid we'd walk about five hours to a lake and fish there. A structure like this was there. It was just rough poles lashes to a couple of trees. You like evergreen brush on it. A tarp thrown over it keeps the rain of but breathes well. And if you like mosquitoes and black flies out is basically paradise.


I don't think anyone likes mosquitos and black flies though.


>>That's going to be a condensation fest in there.

Oh yeah! I spent a few nights in it on a gravel bar on Sylamore Creek in Arkansas and I didn't have a campfire because it was warm out. In the morning it was practically a downpour of rain when I got up and bumped the side walls.

On the plus side, when the sun came over us and burned off the fog the tent warmed up fast, and enough, to dry everything out very quickly.

But that was probably the wettest I've ever seen the inside of any tent get.


Furthermore, there are a lot of places where you can't even have an open fire and/or there isn't a lot of wood. Cool experiment but tents and other sleeping arrangements like hammocks are a pretty well-trod area where real innovations are mostly through using new materials--one disadvantage of which is that super-light gear in my experience is increasingly fragile.


There are a lot of places with plenty of deadfall and fires are fine too. They usually are lower traffic, and the season when you'd want this, fire and condensation are both non issues. For those other places my UL buddy ( both he and his gear are UL) uses a home made tyvek bivy for every trip. His half pad is a therma-rest, but he likes that bivy better than anything he can buy.


I think this experiment offers a glimpse into an area that might deserve looking into.

For example, a breathable weave of that reflective coating on the inside of a tent might make it warmer rather you use a campfire or not and reduce condensation when compared to my garage built proof of concept made with off the shelf materials.

As to places where you can't have a campfire, I addressed that at the end of the post.

One of the things I didn't really talk about, but did show in the video a couple times, is that reflective bubble wrap I use for the floor of the tent.

That stuff makes a great pad for under your mattress pad or bag. It makes a huge difference when you're sitting or sleeping on cold ground and it protects your mattress from rocks and other small sharp hole poking stuff, folded up it makes an awesome pad to sit on, and it's pretty light.


Bubblewrap is an interesting idea. It's also pretty robust and even if you get a puncture, you just affect one bubble. At the end of the day, I'm not really that interested in a lot of hardcore ultralight although my gear, for those occasions when I use it, is pretty light.


A still evening in winter in a dense forest, as hinted at in the article, is actually a pretty easy environment to design for.

Any sort of weather conditions, exposure or ambient humidity would really reveal its weaknesses.

To poorly re-tell a joke from someone who has made been on dozens of expeditions around the world - the ultimate test of any tent is an autumn day on a camp site in a farmers field in north Wales.


Modern backpacking tents have achieved an exquisite pinnacle of engineering and usability perfection. I am a UX baby (constant whining about almost every tool/service/product I interact with, sorry to everyone who has to be around me) and I love my tent. It is magical the degree to which it has been thoughtfully optimized in so many little ways.

DIY tents like this one are interesting and fun if you are into geeking on that sort of thing but honestly seem like a pain to set up and likely to have severe condensation issues (as others have mentioned) but, seriously, I appreciate the geekery here, just not my focus. I prefer to invest my camping DIY geekery on bushwhacking and cooking.


Fabrics are a really underappreciated aspect of a lot of modern outdoor gear, especially with respect to weight. My main objection, as I mentioned in another comment, is that durability is one of the tradeoffs. A few years ago I had one of the super light and compact sleeping pads develop a leak after literally about three days. It was replaced for free but that didn't help at the time.

I have a new very lightweight tent I bought shortly before pandemic. Looking to try it out this fall.


At my grandfather's 100th birthday a few years ago, someone asked him (a guy with a career as a computer technician that spanned the dawn of the digital age) what modern technology he would have been most impressed by when he was young.

His answer: modern synthetic fabrics. In his childhood and early adulthood, raincoats were expensive, heavy, thick rubber and still barely worked. By the time he retired, they were thin, light, entirely waterproof, durable and cheap. Along similar lines, it's hard now to imagine life without elastic in socks and underwear, not to mention shirts made of modern sweat-wicking poly-cotton blends.


Even in the past 20 years or so. When I first started winter hiking the norm was full crampons and either Sorrels or full plastic boots--or nope. These days many of us use silicone-based microspikes with single-layer boots for a lot of purposes and they're fine.


Do you have some boot recommendations or reviews you’d recommend?


It depends on your needs. I still have some big plastics for step-in crampons so my single-layer winter boots are just some mild duty Merrell's (in maybe wide?--which is what I need in some circumstances). Just go to an REI or another more specialty store and try some on with winter-type socks.

Honestly not sure of the best recommendations these days. And depends if you go above treeline and/or do winter backpacks.


Cheers. What I’d like to find is something that’s zero-lift, warm enough for zero-degree weather, and handles ice well (your mention of silicone-based nubbies is what caught my eye). Kind of a niche (maybe impossible?) product, but my sandals don’t do me so well in the snow :)


It depends which zero scale. For zero F I'd want a double-layer boot whether Sorrel-type, plastics, or high-end single layer boot.

For zero C (32 F), there are a lot of boots that are fine for day hikes. The main limitation of something like microspikes vs. full crampons is that they only work well up to a certain angle at which point they don't really work for hard ice.


Oh, duh, Fahrenheit (my bad). Yeah, I’ve got a pair of Sorel’s now. (My goodness, the number of styles have exploded since I was a lad!) Angle isn’t really much of an issue, the terrain is pretty flat where I’m at. Thanks for the advice! Appreciated.


I'm not sure Sorels are as good as they used to be. But, yeah, for not super steep hiking they're great (you can't really front point). And you can even carry an extra pair of liners for backpacking. For flat these days, they're great for microspikes. When I was getting started in winter hiking, it's what most people used. I only got plastics when I started doing some real mountaineering.

You can't really go wrong with Sorels especially for non-high angle hiking. I've actually been an instructor in winter hiking programs.


Very durable fabrics such as CORDURA are extremely heavy. If you just go for the most robust fabric each time you'll be paying for it later on when you're regretting the weight!


> I had one of the super light and compact sleeping pads develop a leak after literally about three days.

Therm-a-Rests are a dependable brand in this regard, as while a leak may happen from time to time (I have had two punctures in about one year of sleeping outdoors), it is usually very easy to find the hole and patch it yourself, just like you do with a bicycle inner tube. I think Therm-a-Rest even includes the patch kit with some of its models now.


This was Synmat. Should probably have had a repair kit with me but as I recall there were multiple leaks. And have several older Thermarest products. But there are definitely tradeoffs between weight and durability.


In my experience the repair kits are of marginal utility because the leaks always develop along the seams. Making a successful patch on a seam is near impossible.


lol. I used a Thermarest patch on my North Face down sleeping bag during a two-day backpacking trip—-very handy.


Now you need to tell us which tent you own.


I've been sleeping in Hilleberg tents for probably close to a year of my life. They are very robust at a great (though not ultra-light) weight. I own a Jannu and a Keron 3 GT.


Hilleberg tents do seem nice in terms of the fabrics they use and the design. However, as the long-haul cyclist community has found, the zippers give out appallingly early for such an expensive, artisanal product. (By the end of the Carretera Austral there seemed to be more Hilleberg owners with broken zippers than with working zippers.)

I owned a Hilleberg Nallo GT-class tent that did seem like the five-star hotel of tents, but when the zipper gave out after less than five months of use, I decided in future to simply go with an MSR Hubba-class tent that doesn’t feel much of a step down in comfort, and is less than half the price, so I can replace it if need be and still have spent less than I would for one Hilleberg.


I wonder how much of the zipper failures are due to lack of maintenance. I use a tooth brush to clean them after each long trip and lubricate them with a little silicone grease. I bought my Jannu in 2007 and haven't had a problem with any of its zippers, ever. I've only had my Keron for 5 years so I can't attest to its longevity yet :)


In my entire life, I’ve never heard of the need to clean and lubricate a zipper. Heck, I’ve got decade old jeans with a zipper than can be washed in harsh detergent, survive an accidental off in a bike, and still open and close.

If your zipper needs maintenance every time you use it, you need a different zipper.


I do this after the tent has been out in the desert dust for a few weeks. Debris will accumulate in the zipper and will increase friction and grind down the plastic (tent zippers aren't made out of metal like you jeans zippers, for weight reasons).

Spending a few hours after a long trip to care for my gear is a great way to ensure it won't fail on the next trip. Especially with tent zippers, you don't want a failure in a storm as that could be unpleasant or even life threatening.

Instructions how to do this are in the owners manual in the maintenance section (although they recommend not using any grease, which I ignored).


It’s common around water sports. For instance, sea kayaking.


Or bagpipes. Many pipers these days use a synthetic bag with a zipper, those need maintenance often. Much easier than the maintenance hide bags need though!


I think very few people know to lubricate their zippers, however. Honestly, it's something I've never heard of.


I never knew about it, then I read the maintenance section of the owners manual of those tents ....


The zipper is a great invention, but it has yet to be perfected.


HUUUUGE fan of Hilleberg. I have a Nammatj I've had for nearly 8 years and it's going strong. And I've taken it to the Andes, the Himalaya, and even deserts.


Seems like everyone assumed I was talking about very fancy expensive, niche tents in my comment. I mean most decent tents today are amazing compared to most products I interact with and light years away from where tents were 30 years ago (when I was a young cub/boy scout).

I personally have used a BA UL2 which I loved although it was a bit too flimsy for my taste. Later I got the REI Half Dome SL 2+. "Ideal" is very personal with tents because you are always making tradeoffs but for me, my REI tent is perfect. Not so expensive that I worry too much about it, not too flimsy, decently light, very nice usability, backed by great warranty.


Yes, please! Also curious about preferences for other related equipment - backpacks etc.


Some of the most loved small manufacturers for UL backpacking gear to look into: Mountain Laurel Designs, Gossamer Gear, Tarptent, Western Mountaineering, Enlightened Equipment, ULA, Hyperlite Mountain Gear, ZPacks, McHale Packs (all custom). There are a lot more that I missed, but that should set you in the right direction.

Here are some of the most essential items for my setup (tested for ~2000 miles in various conditions, like the PCT/AT):

- HMG Windrider 3400 backpack (“just works” better than any other UL pack I have used)

- ZPacks 20F sleeping bag (hoodless is great!)

- Patagonia Houdini wind jacket (extremely versatile layer)

- Patagonia sun hoody (essential for skin protection, in my opinion)

- Uniqlo Heattech extra warm leggings (the greatest clothing item of all time) + Uniqlo down hoody jacket

- Fleece pullover hoody (almost any will do—comfort/extra warm item).

- Thermarest Neoair

- Gossamer Gear 1/8” EVA foam sleeping pad for protecting the Neoair and a zillion other uses (e.g. yoga/picnic/door mat, makeshift rain skirt)

- Tyvek groundsheet (cheap, indestructible, waterproof, becomes buttery soft over time)

- Carbon fiber trekking poles (the ones from Costco are cheap/good)

- AquaMira water treatment drops (the Sawyer squeeze filters deliver fresh filtered water, but they break/leak constantly)

- 2x 1L Smartwater bottles + a 2L Platypus bag

- MLD Patrol tarp with an inner tent or bivy (like this: http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=522791). That’s about 16.0 oz (incl. good stakes) for a versatile and storm-worthy(ish) double wall setup.


A friend gifted me his Uniqlo down jacket (I guess he bought the wrong size and they're cheap enough he didn't bother to return it). It was wonderful and I swore that I'd replace it with a proper down jacket as soon as it wore out. It never freakin wore out. I wore that jacket on all my trips for years and it stood up to everything just fine.

Also, my Patagonia sun hoodie is my favorite clothing item I own. I wore it for a week in the Mojave earlier this spring. I was cool and comfortable the entire week and didn't even get a tan on my arms, let alone a burn.


There is no best car, hence there is no best backpack.

As a rule of thumb: It is easy to buy a backpack that is too big. It is nearly impossible to buy one that is too small. The experience of a traveler is in an anti-proportional relationship with the size of his or her backpack.

This being said, the best back pack I ever had was from Burton. I and I am still heart-broken that it got stolen. It is not produced anymore.


Out of curiosity, do you mean too big as in capacity, or too big as in fit? I'm very tall and I've struggled with packs that don't rest properly on my hips, but I don't know if this was inexperience, or if there's some secret hack to adjust them.


Too big in capacity. My favorite backpack hat around 24l. I guess I could travel with this pack for 10 years. This gives you an Idea. (no tent of cause)

There was a EU based, tiny equipment manufacturer that actually produced backpacks for very tall people. I had some contacts in travel related business that could have brought it back on track. I asked if the owner is willing to let me buy into the business (I was interested in other niche products in his business) but he preferred to close it down.


Hej... no offense taken but generalizations don’t help. My 95L Dana designs terraplane LTW has been to the patagonia Icefield with enough food and climbing gear to make it above 35 kg. In that case you want a big, supportive backpack.


It really depends on your requirements. Mostly don't get a bigger/heavier one than you (actually) need and get one that feels comfortable/fits you. I have an Osprey Atmos if I need more space and I have an older and smaller Gregory something if I'm looking to do short lightweight summer backpacks and maybe use the same thing for dayhikes.


Seconded. I'm working up to a 50 mile trip and I'd love some recommendations.


I'm guessing it's a Zpacks Duplex, it's basically the favorite tent of any through-hiker for the last couple years: https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent They are very well designed and built--100% DCF so they're strong and light, yet great resistance to weather. Unlike most other UL shelters it makes almost no sacrifices and has all the niceties of heavier shelters, like a full floor and interior mesh, big vestibules, etc. And it packs up into an impossibly small size and weight in your pack.


I love my Duplex as well, and that was also my guess. I would note that the biggest downside (other than cost) is that the Duplex is not a free-standing tent (although they do offer a couple of free-standing versions which are significantly heavier). It will sometimes require patience and creativity to set up the tent in areas that are very short on usable ground space (like dense forests or steep terrain) or hostile to tent stakes (like rocks). It's also not the easiest tent to setup extremely quickly, like during a rain or hail shower in the Sierras (but I've encountered that and managed well enough).


It's definitely harder to setup with 8 stakes, and you must carry poles, or borrow a friend's poles, but it's incredible how much lighter it is over almost any other option.


Love my duplex. Hiking the AT now, it is indeed hiker standard. The gossamer gear One also gets rave reviews.


That’s unreal. Wow. I may need to figure out how to convince my wife this is reasonable and necessary.


> Weight 19.0 oz / 539 g

Wow!!


DCF fabric, it's a real game-changer for shelters. It isn't cheap unfortunately and you do have to treat it with some care.


Big Agnes Copper Spur UL is great, I've had one for 5 years and love it.


Not OP, but I have an MSR Hubba Hubba NX that is pretty amazing. I've had several backpacking tents over the years and its my favourite.


Seconding this one. Great lightweight tent without major compromises, but still at a reasonable price and mainstream availability (unlike most of the ultralight tents made of exotic materials)


Interesting. But I often travel, only have the need for a tent for a few days and buy a "throw-away"-tent. And trust me, drunken vikings (speak Iceland) are pretty good in breaking your tent.


during Verslunarmannahelgi ?


ROTFL. Yes. And I went there TWICE. And a f... drunken Viking broke my tent each time.

Second time, there was a guy leaving, left his tent behind. I run after him and asked him if I can have his tent, since mine was broken. He said sure. But even better he told me. There is a second, unused tent in the tent. This is what I call a professional. A guy with a backup plan.


>I am a UX baby

me too, but I think that has been caused by my increasing familiarity with the subject. The more you know the more upset you get when someone does something stupid.


The arch linux of tents?


What tent do you use


The one that suites your needs.

There is no best tent. There are only your requirements and how much you want to spent. I have done well with throw away tents. Be on a festival during my trip, trash the tent, keep traveling without unnecessary equipment.


Tell me you also know a lot about tools :D


What kind of tent is it?


> All things considered this tent, at less than 3 pounds, is one the lightest 2-person, freestanding, tents around that can handle four-season conditions.

4-season tents are made to handle wind and snow accumulation, which this thing definitely would fail. It's a fun exercise for bushcrafting but don't kid yourself and think you can go 15k+ feet up a mountain and survive 50mph wind gusts like you could in a Hilleberg or other true 4 season tent.

I'm a big fan of tarps and tents with pyramid designs--the MLD trailstar is an awesome shelter that's proven itself well in windy, rainy Scottish highlands and is a favorite shelter for backpackers there: https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/


One of the Hillebergs I have is four-season and weighs 3 lbs., including the poles. I can have it up in ten minutes, tops. The tent in the article might weigh 3 lbs., but that doesn't include the tree branches one is going to have to scrounge for to make tent poles. So if, as you mention, one is at 15K feet then snow accumulation is the least of one's worries if you can't find any tent poles above the tree line. :-)

I mean, it could be a cool design to play with but it has a somewhat limited range of usefulness.


In the first video I used my hiking poles in the front corners of the tent and I think I used two short sections of old tent poles, probably fiberglass from an old cheap tent, in the back corners.

In the 2nd video I didn't use any poles or sticks. I tied the upper corners to tree branches with string.

So, you're carrying two short poles and your hiking poles and string and pins to stake out the tent. That's not anymore than any other tent and less than some if you're carrying hiking poles too.

I'll also point out that in our Ozark forests you won't ever be 15k feet when backpacking and tree branches are abundant most everywhere here.

But, the real take away from this video should be that there's room to explore how these heat reflective materials might be used in cold weather backpacking clothes and tents. Not that a Bakers Tent is the best design, although it's a very good one for the Ozark forests and many other places, and for using that reflecting material.


It's a little like igloos and snow caves. Fun to play around with once or twice but not really practical in general.


Snow caves can be quite practical if the snow and terrain are suitable for them. Not a reason not to carry a tent but I've built snow caves even though I had a tent with me because they are so much more comfortable.


Hence "in general" :-) Snow caves are probably more practical than igloos for a night or two but can still involve a fair bit of physical work and hence getting sweaty. Don't really disagree that snow caves can sometimes be fairly practical in the winter in the right snow conditions.


They are very practical in the extreme cold, they will keep you close to 0C/32F when its -30 outside.


> 4-season tents are made to handle wind and snow accumulation, which this thing definitely would fail.

I have to say you're mostly wrong about that. That tent design is a few hundred years old and about as proven as any design can get.

And I left that tent setup for about a month in my yard where that video with my grandson reading the temp was made during some pretty nasty weather. During that time we had a snowstorm that dumped about 5" of wet snow and the next morning when I checked on the tent the roof was sagging and the walls were buckling from the weight but it was still standing. I scraped and shook off the snow and it sprang back into shape.

I do doubt it would hold up in 50+mph winds on a bald peak but I don't know of any tent that can that would warm up to 80+ degrees on a below freezing day.

The point is there is no perfect tent for all conditions and most avid backpackers I know own more than one tent and choose them meet the conditions for the trip they're taking.


It's a baker tent[1] made from SOL Emergency Blankets[2]. They get warm, but what doesn't when you have a long fire in front of you.

[1] http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ [2] https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longe...


The idea sounds fun, but I'm a little skeptical of the author's claims that it'll get to 80 degrees with only a small fire in front of it.

It's quite possible the author and I have different ideas of what a small backpacking fire looks like.


I can say without any worry of being proved wrong that it is very easy to warm that tent to 80+ degrees with even a small campfire like the one seen in the video with my grandson bouncing around inside it.

I use a layer of thicker branches about 3" in diameter first, then I use smaller diameter sticks in layers on top of that. When you light that off the smaller sticks burn down and create a bed of coals on the first layer that keep fuel burning as it's added.

By design that burns low and slow. I'm also burning deadfall from hardwoods, Oak and Hickory by choice, and because that's what's growing in our forest here.


One of the videos has a kid read off a thermometer at 79 degrees (with snow on the ground). You can judge for yourself the size of the fire in that video.


Isn't that when you have the sun shining right into the tent? It's basically a human size solar oven.


Yep. The sun will warm it too.


SOL blankets are made from polyethylene which is highly flammable. Seems like a great idea to end up with third degree burns miles from civilization.


If you can't build and manage a campfire that will not ignite that tent you really shouldn't ever build a campfire anywhere because all campfires are flammable.


>They get warm, but what doesn't when you have a long fire in front of you.

The shitty fireplace in my piss poor excuse of an 80s designed house. It's almost as if it was included as a check mark in a real estate listing rather than how to make it useful.


Yes. And a hole-in-the-wall fireplace will reliably cause a house to get colder in the winter, by sucking warm interior air up and out the chimney, to be replaced with cold outside air drafted in through leaks in the envelope and HVAC penetrations.


>cold outside air drafted in through leaks in the envelope

Oh, I have plenty of those too! Luckily, in my neck of the woods, winters are more of rare occurrence. We typically only have extra summer followed by late fall before spring arrives.


Right on, that is really similar to Cody's Super Shelter from _Dual Survival_...I admit it blew my mind when I first saw it.

https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q

(Cody throws in the "long-wave radiation" terminology for extra survival credibility points)


Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in.


I'm not a physicist but wouldn't this reflective effect be tiny compared to the prevention of convective heat loss?


I spent a night in the woods (on purpose, not a real emergency) sleeping with an emergency blanket. It was not at all comfortable, but the blanket seriously worked. I would wake up whenever it moved to stop covering me because it would instantly become cold, then feel much warmer as soon as the blanket is back in place.

The reflective action is impressive. They also act as a wind break and turn whatever clothes you are wearing into a more effective measure against convective heat loss.


A long time ago I similarly tested a (non-heat-reflective) orange plastic survival bag, sleeping overnight behind some rocks on exposed moorland (something like https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-surviv...).

The poor thermal insulation and condensation were predictable. I hadn't predicted the shifting wind which chose to balloon my orange cocoon with cold air every 20 mins no matter which orientation I chose to lie in. I finished the night with a bungie cord around the sack, under my armpits. That of course left my head, shoulders and arms exposed but kept the wind out. Not recommended.

After this experience I upgraded to reflective mylar survival bags. NB "bag". These are a little harder to find than survival blankets but if a bag can be so badly affected by moderate wind, a blanket would be so much worse.


I sewed one into my ski jacket. Always good to have in case of injury and help an hour away.


Considering average human body area is around 2 square meters and body temperature is around 37 degrees Celsius I get around 1000 W of radiation from the human body according to this calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.h...


Or to put that in terms of net heat loss, in the 0-30C range you're looking at about 10 watts for every degree of difference between your skin and the environment.


Human skin temperature is considerably lower. (Or to think of it from another perspective, the system which is insulating your core temperature includes layers inside your body – skin, etc. – in addition to clothing, blanket, etc.)


Backing out human power consumption from caloric requirements comes closer to 120W constant output, at 2,500 kcal/day.

The range is a low of about 50--75W (1,000--1,500 kcal, effectively starvation levels), and a maximum ceiling of around 485W (10,000 kcal day, perhaps a elite endurance athlete). Well below 1 kW in all cases.


And they are not comfortable, as this post shows:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/im...


But if it is an emergency, and that's all you've got, it's a lot more comfortable than not having one. It's almost like they are purpose designed by looking at the name of the product.


> Those emergency blankets don’t work like normal blankets - by trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting heat and keeping it in.

This reads as if to imply emergency blankets vent air freely, that's obviously not true.


Thermal insulation, whether we're talking about a blanket, a winter jacket, or the foam stuff in your walls, generally involves a layer of some thickness within which there are many tiny spaces full of trapped air. It's difficult for heat to propagate across those spaces. The author's point is that mylar emergency blankets do not provide this thick layer of "trapped air". It's true that they prevent air from crossing, but only for the very thin layer of the blanket.

I'm not sure exactly how effective the mylar blankets are and under what circumstances, but this is what "trapped air" refers to.


Heat is transmitted by radiation, by conduction and by convection. A foam jacket blocks heat transmission by preventing convection. A mylar blanket prevents transmission by radiation and convection. Yes, it still loses heat to transmission but it isolates rather well. Unsurprisingly, that’s why they are used as emergency blankets.


You'd be surprised how hot surrounding oneself with mylar gets. I've been inside a grow tent lined with mylar, and even though it was open on one side, it felt like a sauna within minutes!


Homeless people use garbage bags to similar effect, you don't even need fancy mylar, it's just an optimization.

The main problem with these solutions AIUI is the trapped humidity.


For those of you who are also gear-heads geeking out about tents and what not, I built this service quite some years back now to aggregate a bunch of lightweight focused used gear markets along with some notification features.

It’s got a lot of the cottage gear manufacturers mentioned in this thread - part of the goal with building the site was to try to bring some awareness to their services!

[1] https://lwhiker.com


When I was a kid I went on a winter campout with the Boy Scouts. We had about a half-dozen canvas tents of that shape, arranged in a semicircle. The awnings were all stretched out and connected to tarps that enclosed the other half of the semicircle, and a wood stove was placed in the middle. I wouldn't say it was warm like inside a house, but it was much warmer than expected.

The scouts at that time had a -100 badge, you got it when the low temperature with windchill for each night you camped added up to -100 Fahrenheit. We all got the badge that weekend.

P.S. I never knew that style was called a Bakers Tent.


Amazing, when you add the idea of a Swedish rocket stove (https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keep...) this could make camping way more accessible.

I've got some motorcycle camping planned, and own an auger for that stove purpose, but was looking for a tent, and this looks super interesting.


Better take something that could be used inside the tent and makes no smoke. So that you could make some tea or noodles while it rains outside. And no mosquitoes. Believe me, been there.


I would strongly advise against anyone cooking inside their tent (fire risk, animal magnet, carbon monoxide poisoning—all elaborated on here: https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-safely-cook-in-a-tent/). Tents are usually very flammable—especially the mesh bug netting, which melts almost instantly even from the indirect heat of a lighter held a few feet away.

If you have to in an emergency, then at least cook in the vestibule area (i.e. outside and away from the tent material) with lots of ventilation.

PS: I think it is essential to embark on any camping/backpacking trip with a mindset of adaptation/sacrifice. You have to be willing to make conservative or uncomfortable decisions in the name of risk management (e.g. trudging through a stream and getting your shoes wet vs. attempting a dry crossing on a precarious log, or resisting the warm noodle cravings during a rainstorm). Besides, it makes the experience of returning to civilization that much more exhilarating.


To reiterate what others have said, do not run a fuel burning stove in a tent. I've heard several stories about people dying from carbon monoxide poisoning while trying to keep warm with a stove in their tent. (One about a parent and child in a national park is burned into my brain.) I suspect that people assume the fabric "breathes" sufficiently.

If you need to boost the warmth of your tent, boil some water outside, put it in a container, and keep that in your tent (being careful of scalding, of course).


Looks like a carbon monoxide death trap if you close it up and light up inside...


Nope, it looks like you're getting a hot tea and a warm meal. And the guy that's got only a smoky woodchip burner gonna have a cold water and the dry noodles :D


I've never really had a problem staying warm winter camping - even around zero degrees. The key is a warm mummy sleeping bag and a small tent. The air in the tent is basically insulation, and in a small tent your body heat keeps it pretty warm. Use the mummy bag properly and you might even get too hot and need to unzip it a little.


What happens if the tent catches fire? Does it burn?


That plastic really doesn't burn too well. It's easy to test with bit of it and a bic lighter. And I did test it a lot and read up on it.


Polyethylene is highly combustable according to the FAA https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf


According to that FAA document, PET (Polyethyleneterephthalate) is considerably less combustible than PE. This material seems to be BoPET (biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate), which is aluminised PET. Presumably less flammable than PET, but not included in the FAA document.

I am not an expert, and haven't tested it.

Edit: I see now, that PE seems to be in the doorway.


But the part closest to the fire is a clear plastic sheet.


The fire is about 4ft feet away from the tent. As you can see in the video with my grandson the fire is a small, wide, low, fire.

There is no way a properly built and managed fire like that will set that tent on fire.

And I did point out at the end of that post that you need to have campfire skills to do this safely.


I'm guessing it'll burn, but perhaps not very well/too dangerously... But I'm sure there's a way to weld yourself in molten plastic if you're unlucky?

Not certain which exact model is used - doesn't look like they're advertised as flame retarded? (most modern tents are)

https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflecti...


Those interested in making your own gear should check out r/myog. Lots of good content there.


Thank you for the suggestion. Sounds like my kinda place!


In scouts we winter camped in lean-tos made from sticks and spruce boughs. We would build a wall behind the fire to reflect heat into the lean-to. It works well enough in a survival situation.

It's best to just have a sleeping bag rated for the conditions. Gathering wood and stoking up the fire every 45 minutes is too much of a hassle.


that front panel looks dangerous.. fire facing and is made from flammable plastic sheets


I thought the same thing, looks like a fairly thin plastic drop cloth that could start fairly quickly if the wind direction or strength changes.


If you don't have one of the modern tents described in the other comments, your best bet in windy and rainy weather is to minimize the space you're trying to keep dry to your belongings and yourself.

What I've done is put the tarp down, put my stuff in the middle, and a blanket for myself on one side, then fold it over in a way that water flows off. Then I take a nice long rest until the rain is over.


At the top of my wishlist for a tent is some level of animal protection. I get unreasonably afraid of bears especially when I’m half asleep.


In case readers here are unaware, bear attacks are very rare in North America [1].

You might be more likely to die in a car accident involving a deer on the way to/from your outing, than to be killed by a bear during your outing.

Most knowledgeable folk believe that the best preventative care for bears is educated avoidance, and educating oneself on how to safely handle an encounter [3].

The takeaway from these statistics is not to say that one should be blissfully carefree. Rather, that one should be respectfully educated and pragmatic. It's their territory that we're traversing through, after all. The onus is on us.

It's good to seek mitigations, but it's not healthy to be so afraid. Education is a good antidote to fear! :)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_t...

[3]: http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/animals-bears.html


Bear spray is extremely effective. You can make warning trip lines, I think there's even portable electric fences you can rig up for the super baranoid. I only ever saw a bear take down a tent once out of about three hundred nights. A guy left a bar of soap in his tent. He left and went to his truck when he heard the bear.


I wouldn't call that unreasonable, but it's not physically possible for a tent to even slow a bear down if it wants to get in. In my town, bears have gotten into houses and garages by tearing the front doors off their hinges, and by tearing through a house's siding and sheathing.

I recommend car camping in bear country.



The bear that tours our neighborhood opens car doors. If the car is locked he'll damage the handle, but if the car doesn't have food in it he won't damage the interior, so we leave our cars unlocked and make sure they're clean. I don't have a garage, otherwise I'd use that.

A couple years ago he broke into a neighbor's RV and tore the kitchen to pieces. IIRC the RV was totalled.


They also go through open windows. Saw an interior get totaled all because some m&m's were left on the dash.


If people are interested look up bear proof trash cans - they’re basically tanks. Anything less doesn’t slow down a bear.


We have bear-proof Toters. They're really nice, but they're kind of a pain for the trash collectors; the mechanism to open them is fiddly and impossible to use with gloves, and because they latch, the truck's robot arm can't empty them unless the guys dismount the truck and open them first.

You would probably be safe hiding inside one of them. Toter's website has videos of testing they did with a brown bear (possibly a grizzly). He fucks it up pretty good but doesn't manage to open it.


Yeah but how do you get out of those once you jump in?


I'm not worrying about that until the bear is gone.


How do you know it's gone?



when it stops hurting


I've been somewhat concerned about bears as well, though I wonder if just tying a bell to a string and around some trees would help.


You'd need to string a perimeter around the tent. Might give you time to get the bear spray ready.


I’ve thought of that but I’d have a such a panic at any false alarm. Wind, racoons, etc.


It looks a lot like the Oztent RV-2 to me.

https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/ozte...


Works fine for me, but https://archive.fo/kMceI is a possible alternative if you're having trouble with the JS.


I don’t like the plastic that close to the fire especially overnight.


"It's said that Henry David Thoreau lived alone in a Bakers tent on Walden Pond."

Who says this? Thoreau lived in a cabin and had his mother bring him food every day.


Thoreau says this, in The Maine Woods[0]. (EDIT: Thoreau says that he lived in a tent in Maine, not at Walden Pond.) The author of TFA got it a little wrong. Note to those wanting to replicate this: I'm pretty sure Thoreau's tent catches fire at some point. I'd have to re-read to confirm or deny if it had anything to do with setting the tent in front of the fire, as the author of TFA does.

[0] https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html


“A shed-shaped tent will catch and reflect the heat like a Yankee-baker, and you may be drying while you are sleeping.” Page 124: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page124.html

“ We had no sooner pitched our tent than the thunder-shower burst on us, and we hastily crept under it, drawing our bags after us, curious to see how much of a shelter our thin cotton roof was going to be in this excursion. Though the violence of the rain forced a fine shower through the cloth before it was fairly wetted and shrunk, with which we were well bedewed, we managed to keep pretty dry”. Page 99: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html

“Our bed was made with as much care and skill as a roof is shingled; beginning at the foot, and laying the twig end of the cedar upward, we advanced to the head, a course at a time, thus successively covering the stub-ends, and producing a soft and level bed. For us six it was about ten feet long by six in breadth. This time we lay under our tent, having pitched it more prudently with reference to the wind and the flame, and the usual huge fire blazed in front.” Page 27: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html

I didn’t find anything about a tent catching fire, but I only skim searched.


Thanks for looking. It is entirely possible that my middle-aged memory on books read 25 years ago is...not entirely reliable. :-)


Thanks for the correction/clarification.


I'm boggled people would downvote this; I would have noted mikestew's point about The Maine Woods in my original post if I could have still edited it.


Boggled myself. I upvoted, but it's still light text, which means it wasn't just a one-off or an accident. :-P It reminds me of what a good idea /.'s meta-moderation was: "keep that shit up, and we'll take your down arrow away".


It is not clear to me, after reading this nice piece, if the fire must be kept alive all night long in order to keep the tent warm?


You can build and manage a fire to burn slow, but yea, you do have to get up and add fuel as needed.

Depending where you are, if you can orient the face of the tent towards the sunrise that might warm it up some (so you could snooze a little longer).

I've never done that yet though so I can't say how much. Now I'm curious to know how much that will warm it.


nice, looks great!


70 degrees inside tent?

Ah it is Fahrenheit, so 21 degrees Celcius...


I see no content on the linked page. Am I missing something?


You need to have Javascript enabled because the content is faded in by a script, apparently. Here's a pastebin of the text, but the post includes videos too: https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE


I came here wondering if anyone else had that problem, yep, thanks for the pastebin.


Little Snitch seems to think it fetches AJAX on a nonstandard port.


yeah, its trying to get to cherrypc.com on port 6984. That's kind of strange. Work proxy won't let me see it, oh well.


Fails both Wayback Machine as well. That's a bad look.

(I'd thought Archive.is also balked, though that now seems to work.)


[flagged]


The spike in homelessness is already here, just not in your county. Some counties deliberately force out homeless folks and push them to neighboring cities, which may be the case where you live.

Seattle saw a 6% rise last year: https://apnews.com/article/seattle-washington-coronavirus-pa... The Tenderloin, SF saw a 285% rise(!) last year: https://abc7news.com/homeless-in-san-francisco-coronavirus-s...


Having a camp fire right next to a tent made of highly flammable polyethylene seems like ... less great of an idea.


Broken link.




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