The only problem with your comparison (and I'm not saying devs don't make less money in EU) is that you can't just convert one currency to the other. You have to compare purchasing power and quality of life.
The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents.
I would compare the possible lifestyles and quality of life: how long does it take to buy a house/apartment? Can you afford to travel on vacation? Can you save money for your kids' college (or do you even need to do that)?
Fair point, quality of life has a lot of non-fungible aspects (and I saw this as someone who has lived in 5 metro areas and 3 continents over the last 15 years), however the difference does not all get eaten by cost of living, especially if you stay disciplined. A single reasonably strong SDE you can pretty easily be making $250k, even after exorbitant bay area rents you can still save/invest 1-2x your total equivalent EU salary. Even just coming and living a frugal lifestyle for 5-10 years can be life changing.
That said, with the rise of big tech satellite offices and remote work, there is definitely a path to €150k+ total comp without leaving the EU, and over time this should put upward pressure on salaries across the board (London is ahead of the curve here).
Sure, and I'm in no way doubting that developers make more in US than EU. I'm just saying that it would be better if we had a comparison that was more realistic in terms of what you can actually get with your money - and also other things like healthcare, overtime, vacations, work culture.
I've made this point many many times on this site, but if you make 150k in san Francisco, and pay 4k a month on rent, you have more left over after rent and tax than a mid level developer in europe makes as a gross salary.
If you can only make 150K in San Francisco, you'd be better off moving to a MCOL or LCOL US city where you can make nearly that much and have no trouble paying rent. It's only worth working in San Francisco if you're making 200K+ and think you have a good shot at making 300-500K in ~5 years or so (or if you're already making >300K, obviously).
When I made ~$150k in SF, that equated to $8k/month after-tax. $2k/month for a decent studio/1-bedroom apt near Golden Gate Park. I felt very comfortable and very much enjoyed my quality of life on that salary.
The actual number is irrelevant; If you make <roughly average amount> in SF, and pay <way over the odds> for rent, post tax and rent, your leftover money is still more than a mid level engineer in Europe, even in London where the costs of living are proportional. If you make 2/3/500k it only skews in the balance of the bay area.
Which is a fun and profitable adventure for a kid out of college, but a functioning middle-class American grown-up owns his home. That "more left over,' while a lot, is not terribly much against the price of a family home here.
But the avocado toast ain’t cheap either! Neither is your Soulcycle class! People seem to find a way to spend their money one way or another anyway! But if you save the money, sure. However if you still buy the house in SF with that savings you tend to again lose all benefit. Thus the only way to do this correctly is make a lot of money in Sf for a decade, save most of it, move to some European country and don’t earn at all (this no tax).
> But the avocado toast ain’t cheap either! Neither is your Soulcycle class
A soulcycle class is $35/pop. Even at one a day, on top of $4000/month for rent, and income tax, you're still left with roughly the amount a mid level engineer in a european city (excluding maybe London) makes pre-tax. No amount of Avocado toast, or whatever the sneaker fad changes that equation.
> However if you still buy the house in SF with that savings you tend to again lose all benefit.
That's no different to buying a house in London or Amsterdam say, except once you've dumped $1m into your "modest" home, you're still earning 2.5x what the person in London/Amsterdam is.
> The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents.
"You can't make rent"/"You can't buy a house with a reasonable commute" an a software dev salary is almost entirely a California and NYC-area phenomenon.
A "typical" software developer (even a junior) could afford a decent house within a reasonable commute in ~7 of the top 10 metro areas in the US (Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Miami, Philadelphia, Atlanta). In the remaining 3 (NYC, LA, DC), you'd probably end up with an unpleasantly long commute, although plenty of people make that choice. If you go further down the list of metros, the ratio is similar.
> How long does it take to buy a house/apartment?
In any of the metro areas mentioned above, you should be able to buy a house on a software dev salary as soon as you've save a 5-10% down payment (so $25-50k for a $500k house, more if you want something bigger/in a nicer area). The difference in salaries vs. Europe would typically allow you to save that within a couple years.
> Can you afford to travel on vacation?
Unambiguous yes - you can afford the monetary cost of a vacation on a software dev salary. Families in much less lucrative fields than software still take vacations.
Paid time off is trickier - European norms are for employers to provide much higher amounts of PTO for all employees, while most American firms are much stingier with it. This is something to explicitly shop around for and use as a decision criteria in a job hunt. There are definitely large American firms that provide 20-25 PTO days standard for new employees.
> Can you save money for your kids' college (or do you even need to do that)?
Annual tuition & mandatory fees at the flagship state university in the median state is ~$12k, so ~$48k for a 4-year degree. This excludes living costs, but you have to pay living costs at European universities as well. If returns on your college investments keep pace with tuition increases (many states have programs that can explicitly guarantee this), then you can pay tuition after 18 years by saving $2700/year per child.
You didn't mention healthcare, which often comes up, but software devs working as full-time employees will typically have good health insurance available through work, so that's not a problem in practice either.
There are tons of reasons to prefer Europe vs. the US (culture, a preference for dense living, lower-pressure work environments, more paid time off, etc.) but overall buying power isn't really one of them. Your salary will buy you more "stuff" (housing, cars, vacations, savings, etc.) in the US, unless you choose to live in one of the highest-cost regions of the country without a correspondingly high salary.
This is spot on. We made exactly the same calculation and you make more money, have better healthcare, can buy a better house, and save far more money in the US than in the EU as a developer.
Yeah, you have to buy the perks that are free (because your taxes go toward useful things) in the EU, but you make so much more money, that buying them is easy.
The US is a really strange place. It's far worse for 90% of people than the EU, but for the top 5% or so, it's unimaginably better.
Sure, I agree with you on everything. Your comment is a bit more detailed than just converting EUR to USD, and gives a better feeling on the actual difference. As I mentioned on my comment, I was not disagreeing that the dev make more money in US, but just that the parent comment was not considering some things you have to pay in US, that makes the difference a bit smaller
The same salary in US could be viewed as 'you are rich' or 'you can't pay rent' depending on with city you live in. Now, you are talking about different continents.
I would compare the possible lifestyles and quality of life: how long does it take to buy a house/apartment? Can you afford to travel on vacation? Can you save money for your kids' college (or do you even need to do that)?