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Yeah, lets replace this centralized service that goes down sometimes with another centralized service that hasn't started going down sometimes yet!

OR, get people on Matrix or similar so we can actually stop jumping ship when our centralized dear service stops acting in our best interest.




> OR, get people on Matrix or similar so we can actually stop jumping ship when our centralized dear service stops acting in our best interest.

Decentralisation is the right answer. Unfortunately we always cannot convert or move others every-time we say the word 'Matrix' or 'Element/Matrix', which leaves the user confused with the client and the protocol. It is close to the GNU/Linux naming all over again and that did not catch on.

If you want others to make the switch to (Chat client that uses Matrix) without confusing them, then at least avoid telling them to: 'Use Matrix' which is like saying 'Use MTProto' or 'Use libsignal'. The client's name is always mentioned but this is why compared to Signal or Telegram the name 'Element' sounds totally off, even without mentioning the protocol.

For example: Almost everyone has heard of 'Bitcoin' and it's decentralised. That works. No need to mention 'Blockchain' or any of that jargon. So let's have a user-friendlier decentralised client that does not need to mention the protocol's name.


Yes, I adjust my language depending the audience and since this is "Hacker News" after all and I mostly don't care about what client people use, as long as it's using Matrix, I find it's best to recommend the protocol itself.

Then it's up to us nerds to find the best client for our non-hacker friends and family.


Both of you are right


Quick let's replace this centralized service that goes down sometimes with a group of centralized services that go down sometimes.

Matrix being federated does absolutely nothing to solve this problem since there's no failover if a user's homeserver goes down. It just limits the potential blast radius but if matrix.org went down Matrix might as well be down for most people.


It does indeed solve a part of the problem.

> There is no single point of control or failure in a Matrix conversation which spans multiple servers: the act of communication with someone elsewhere in Matrix shares ownership of the conversation equally with them. Even if your server goes offline, the conversation can continue uninterrupted elsewhere until it returns.

https://matrix.org/

So right now, if you're trying to message someone via either whatsapp, facebook or instagram they will all fail, most likely because of the same issue as they are run by the same company. If you were on Matrix, you would for sure be able to find a way of reaching this person even if servers go down, that's the entire point of federation in the first place.


Lets be honest, most users right now use the main matrix server. Anyways there is atleast an option to use own servers.


I've been looking for data around how many people actually use the various matrix servers, but seems you have it already. Could you please link here so I can see it too?


it's simply not true - according to Matthew it is around a third


> It just limits the potential blast radius

True, but it makes a difference between a single Homeserver not working any more and the entire global service. This likely won't ever happen.

> matrix.org went down Matrix might as well be down for most people.

not really (afaik less than a third of public(!) users use matrix.org)

Also consider ongoing developments of distributing accounts on multiple servers (which may also reside on your device) for P2P Matrix. This gives additional redundancy.


Ha, I hear you. Also a fan of Matrix, but it's so not mainstream usable yet. Tried to get non tech friends on there yet?


What you mean "friends"?


Pretty much. My main preference for Signal is that it's a charitable organisation. That and a few other bits. Phone number IDs are on the way out hopefully. The dream would be some kind of federated layer, but the charitable org thing is a good start for me.


define mainstream usable




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