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"One thing Rust has done, is to teach everyone they must lead with propoganda"

Sounds like somebody is bitter.




While I agree that de Raadt sounds bitter, I also agree with the sentiment. When I look at the software development scene these days (may it be compilers or libraries) it genuinely feels like there is more advocacy than substance.

I am not going to blame Rust for that. Rust is a language I have been meaning to look into and they have a need to be heard over the ruckus. Yet the preponderance of propaganda begs the question: is this real or is it going to be yet another language that fails to reflect the claims? While learning something new is wonderful, I would rather expend my energy on a language that has something genuinely interesting to offer.


There is no substance for most of it.

But taking Rust as example?

Rust is the one language that delivered in terms of performance and safety.


He's right, though.


Hard agree!

Not recognizing how right TdR (and OBSD by extension) have been is a giant red flag to me. It would be a whole different deal if they didn't have years of track record showing their conservative approach was 100% justified.


That doesn't justify unrelated rants in the mailing list though.


He is exactly a cultural leader in the space of operating system distributions. I think this is a prime example of using organizational system leverage for profound technical impact.


If that "culture" means that someone (but not everyone) is allowed to say unrelated things in unrelated venues, sure, I agree that it would have a great impact, negatively.

Seriously, you can instead say that the description for newer programming languages tends to be subjective (which is IMO true). Then the discussion about regulating descriptions can follow. Instead you have this useless rant. The original link is correctly flagged, not because it is anti-Rust, but because it has no substantial values to discuss at all.


Hasn't he always sounded like that?


I think he and I suppose many OS developers are sick of the constant calls to rewrite their OS in the new wonder language. Rust has had the hype train jacked (check all the threads on HN with 'just rewrite it in Rust').

He has had much the same criteria for years. Do the work to prove it. I've often thought it would be interesting to map out the OpenBSD userland and figure out exactly what the work would be.


The frustration is fair and understandable, but his characterization of Rust is wrong IMO.

Side note, has anyone read a Java textbook? They are notable for not being able to go more than a page without extolling Java's virtues in a way that is repetitive and annoying.

(My experience with Rust textbooks was not like that. They tend to explain the drawbacks of Rust's "radical wager" with the stipulation that for the authors, the payoff is worth it.)


Theo often sounds like that if somebody is using "handwavy" arguments.


That's the reality of mozilla

Propaganda, how do you think you hear about firefox everyday, everywhere, despite it having only just 3% user share

It was the same with rust

Propaganda machine works, just look at the USA


The popularity of a tool among masses, more so a technical tool, doesn't have anything to do with its merits and capabilities.

Firefox does offer unique privacy features which are not even a remote priority for Chrome and Edge (and IE) which do have the lion's share of the browser market.

And you are hearing about FF, mainly in tech-related forums and in places that people care about their freedom.

Sadly, the recent actual propaganda pushed by the Mozilla executives, especially that talk about "de-platforming" is beginning to question Firefox's main and only selling-point over its competitors.




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