I sometimes wonder where the hell most HNers work where 9am is not considered late start. At a warehouse I worked at the shift was 6am to 2pm. And it was great that way as you avoided most of the summer heat. The software company where I work now, 8am is standard, that way you're nicely done at 4pm and have the entire evening to yourself. My wife is also a programmer and usually starts at 7:30am because that's their first scrum.
> starts at 7:30am because that's their first scrum
We have scrum inside mandatory hours. There's a fairly strict company policy that you cannot schedule _recurring_ meetings outside mandatory hours, and if you do, you cannot expect people to attend, so scrum here is 9am. Even scheduling non recurring meetings outside mandatory hours is frowned upon.
As for the schedule itself, it fits nicely with (european) family life. My kids start school at 8am, so i usually drop them off at school on my way to work, and get in around 8:30am (before COVID anyway). I get off work at 4pm, and have the entire evening with my family.
I'm aware that at least some parts of the US has (or had ?) a much more fluid line between work and free time, where people will leave work to have lunch with their family, return to work, leave to watch a soccer game (or whatever), and return to work, and leave work around 7pm.
To me that sounds much more hellish than just working 8am to 4pm :)
This isn’t super common where I am (although you can do it). I had a coworker who practiced something like this so they could go to the gym in the afternoon when it would be less crowded. Or for the soccer example, not much of a choice if you want to watch live European sports.
Also at least in Seattle it seems like every doctor’s office keeps bankers hours (M-F 9-5) so you would have to disrupt your own workday to go to an appointment, though in practice I haven’t known people to bother putting in extra work if their projects are reasonably getting done on time.
Back in ancient times, my first software job was with an crusty old fashioned company. We were required to be in before 8am, many people arrived as early as 6am. Dress code was also very strict (but more lenient than it was historically)
My second software job was with a company that was just as old but much more modern (not startup-ish). the boss required the team to be in before 9am, daily team meeting was at 9.
My job now has flextime with core hours between either 10-3 or 10-2 (can't recall which) but very few people arrive after 9am. All other jobs I've worked have flextime with similar core hours, there was only one job that had a true "no rules" approach.
My preferred hours used to be 730-330. The last place I was at the majority turned up around 930, and then milled about drinking coffee and chatting for the first hour or so.
I'm working for a small(er) (30ish people) software company and 9am is the general start of the work day, but it's not regulated or enforced. Some people start at 8am, but I for myself start mostly around 10am, except there are some meetings before.
Every single software team I've worked in or heard of in the USA? ;) Usually it's tied to the first meeting, I have a mind-destroying train wreck of a "scrum" 3 times a week at 11am so it doesn't make any sense to start before 11.
When I used to wake up early consistently in a different team I tried to move the morning scrum to 7am, or maybe 8am, or maybe come on 9:30am?! But people weren't buying it. Meetings before 10am are only scheduled in extreme circumstance.
In the UK I'm 9am to 5pm, however my contract allows for unpaid overtime. Usually management are pretty good with this though, and give some unofficial time off in lieu if I have to work OT.
Unless i was in serious financial trouble, or in a learning situation, i would never accept a contract that "allows for unpaid overtime".
Most of the companies i know don't allow for "paid free time", so why should i give away my time for free to increase profits for the company ?
The exception to this is of course "job salary", but i never accept those either unless i have a say in what exactly makes up the "job" part, and i usually tell the employer that "job salary" goes both ways, so if i'm done with my job Wednesday afternoon, i'll say "enjoy your weekend" and be back next monday. That's when we usually agree on paid overtime :)
>>Unless i was in serious financial trouble, or in a learning situation, i would never accept a contract that "allows for unpaid overtime".
At least in the UK the law specifically forbids working more than 48 hours a week, so it's pretty common to see contracts where you opt out of this regulation. Not because the company even intends to make you work overtime, but because if you happened to work more, even entirely out of your own free will, you could still sue the company for working more than 48 hours in a week. So it's a very common thing to add in contracts here.