You're assuming a highly optimistic scenario where you take an even pay cut but make out like a bandit. The reality is that a "fair wage" for many rural white collar workers is 40% of what you might make in SV, or even worse. Getting $250k in SV sucks, but try getting paid $50k in Cincinnati. Then imagine a scenario where there's maybe 2-3 local companies that hire, and they all collude on prices.
I feel like people saying "just move to a low COL area" have never actually lived and worked in a low COL.
If you lose your job or get fired, there's no one to back up that "half as much, x2 profit" unless you find remote work again, and then you're also at the mercy of whatever people feel they can get out of you. Without competing offers or local competition, you're at the mercy of the market.
People are underselling the competition that nuclei of talent can produce from top competing companies.
I think people are also assuming that the "market" rate for tech jobs in these "low COL" areas keeps up with the cost of living. I am here to tell you that it does not, in the cases I'm familiar with. Especially in the relatively hot "cheap" areas, outsiders moving in are driving housing prices up dramatically, but the pay rates have not increased the same amount. So if five years ago you could make 2X the profit, now it might only be 1.25X, and getting worse.
Also, people need to remember that "cost of living" is not actually one thing. It's not like I get a "living" bill once a year that I have to pay. Even in relatively cheap areas, there are some things that cost the same as or even more than they do in major metro areas. Don't do math based on some web-based COL calculator or even on housing prices and assume that it will apply across the board.
I have absolutely seen offers within the last six months where the candidate would be worse off financially despite living in a "cheap" place because the pay reduction was more than the all-in cost of living a similar lifestyle (yes, if you're willing to downgrade lifestyle you can offset this, but you can do the same thing in SF. Most people I've seen actually want to UPGRADE lifestyle with larger houses, more land, nicer neighborhoods, etc.).
Ok hold up in what world does $250k in SV suck? Median household income here is around $120k last I checked. Making more than double that cannot be described as sucking, come on.
It was mostly sarcastic. I don't actually believe it's bad, that's just "average market rate" for senior/mid level engineer. Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest. Housing issues aside.
> Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest.
I'll believe this only insofar as $120k in the Midwest means you are "set" in the sense that you can max out your retirement, buy a home, have nice cars, etc. and basically live on autopilot from a financial sense.
That’s how bad housing is. If you grew up on the dream of a nice house with a garage and a big yard, $250k still doesn’t get you there in SV.
This type of housing setup that would cost $300k in, say Dallas, will cost $2.5 million on the peninsula. Between property taxes, mortgage insurance, interest, and principal payments and a jaw dropping $140k down payment, that is a monthly payment of $14k or so.
Your take-home after taxes on 250k in the bay is probably around 160k, or 13.3k a month. Whoops, no “American dream” home for you.
As a European I think American expectations of a reasonable home size are completely ridiculous. Guess that’s a hidden immigrant advantage :D
Then again I would describe most of the houses here as somewhere between a hovel and a shack in terms of build quality. But I’m getting used to it after 6 years.
> It’s not even an option in Manhattan, but plenty of people would disagree it “sucks” there.
In Manhattan thats the expectation. You’re in a super dense area filled with high rises. Life is good for apartment dwelling.
In Mountain View, you’re in a suburb that’s mostly single family homes that you’re constantly reminded you won’t ever be able to afford.
> How is it reasonable in the least to expect a big house with a garage and a yard
That’s the lifestyle of the peninsula. It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by. Back to the Manhattan analogy, $250k absolutely would not be considered good money if it could not afford you the ability to live like the average property owner.
The Bay Area is a stark contrast between the people lucky enough to have purchased 10+ years ago + some FAANGs and everyone else. Everyone else is stuck in a terrible apartment telling themselves stories about how they’ll get out after making their money or whatever.
It’s nice living in a walkable apartment with no car in Manhattan (or nyc in general). It’s dreary AF on the peninsula.
It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by.
No, it's not. Should you be able to afford a home in Beverley Hills? Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm.
Yes, it is. The norm in cities in the US until very recently was that you could get a middle class job, buy a small home, raise a family, etc. This phenomenon of only being able to lick the boots of the homeowners near the good jobs is relative new.
> able to afford a home in Beverley Hills
We’re talking about the entire Bay Area, not a specific suburb. Anywhere within an hour commute of Google HQ is like this.
> Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm.
Yes. It was the norm. Then the nimby dickheads stepped in and pulled up the ladder behind them by blocking everything they could and pushed through a very favorable proposition to existing homeowners (prop 13).
Your opinion might be that it’s fine to block out an entire generation from the bay and rent seek. I personally think that’s a shitty drag on society propped up by government created housing scarcity.
I feel like people saying "just move to a low COL area" have never actually lived and worked in a low COL.
If you lose your job or get fired, there's no one to back up that "half as much, x2 profit" unless you find remote work again, and then you're also at the mercy of whatever people feel they can get out of you. Without competing offers or local competition, you're at the mercy of the market.
People are underselling the competition that nuclei of talent can produce from top competing companies.