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Getting rid of the monarch as the head of state also means your nation has to pick a new head of state, somehow. Regular elections and an office and bureaucracy around that isn't free either.



But the Brits already HAVE a head of state what they don't need in effect is another. There is nothing the queen does that couldn't be done by existing members of government.


No, the prime minister is the head of government, while the monarch is the head of state, those are two different roles.

You could merge them, South Africa-style if you wanted, but it's pretty unusual. Most parliamentary systems separate the two.


I don't disagree that a unified head of state+government would be unusual, but most parliamentary systems were also heavily inspired by the Westminster System, so that might not be a great argument one way or another.


Whom does the armed forces pledge allegiance to? In the UK, it's the monarch, not the government. That balance of power (military v political/legislative) gives you national stability.

You don't want one person having both.

Its the main reason royals serve in the armed forces.


> Whom does the armed forces pledge allegiance to?

Why does the armed forces need to pledge allegiance to a person?

> In the UK, it's the monarch, not the government. That balance of power (military v political/legislative) gives you national stability.

I don't think there's much evidence of that.

> You don't want one person having both

Why not?

> Its the main reason royals serve in the armed forces.

The main reason the royals serve in the armed forces is that the royalty (and even the broader nobility) is a remnant of what is notionally a warrior elite that is traditionally barred from servile labor but has position of authority ultimately grounded in military function. The substance of both the authority and the distinct warrior class is almost entirely extinct, but traditions remain, including the tradition that it's pretty much the only thing that looks like work that senior royals are permitted to do, as anything else in government would be seen to violate their distance from that function and anything else would be seen as demeaning the monarchy.


If a crisis happens, which side do you think the military would support, the one they pledged allegiance to or the one paying their wages?


I've actually had that discussion with an ex-Army officer and he was adamant that the Army would support the monarch.

Mind you - he was an officer and from a rather posh guards regiment so that's kind of what I would expect him to say.

Mind you - the UK can only have a standing army with the express permission of Parliament:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689


>Mind you - the UK can only have a standing army with the express permission of Parliament:

This requirement only seems to apply to British Army, the Navy and Air Force are exempt. W good example of how unimportant the pageantry is.


IIRC, it's because the British Army can trace its origins back to the New Model Army, so pledging allegiance to the Crown was more than just a formality back then.

In contrast, the 'Royal' Navy was created expressly by the monarch so allegiance is implied.


Well, that's the thing about having the muscle. Ultimately, you can make that decision for yourself.


So if after an election there are two different coalitions who both claim to be the best chance at a stable government, who makes the choice to go with one of them, or to call fresh elections?

Under the Westminster system of government, I cannot see any alternative to having a seperate head of state that is not part of the government, even if they do nothing more than wake up every 5 years, appoint a prime minister and go back to sleep again.


> So if after an election there are two different coalitions who both claim to be the best chance at a stable government, who makes the choice to go with one of them, or to call fresh elections?

In a parliamentary system, the legislative body selects a head of government using a negative process, i.e. they choose the first best alternative that won't lose a vote of no confidence. You don't need 51% approval from parliament, you need to not get 51% disproval.

And depending on country, there are rules for in which order the various players are asked and how much time is allowed to pass for horse-trading and coalition-making, but generally the order is that you first ask the incumbent if they want to continue governing, and thereafter each party leader in order of size in parliament if they have an alternative that they think can pass a vote.

Also, in countries where coalitions are the norm, the various parties have aligned into blocks during the election campaign so that you can be reasonably certain that a vote for party A implicitly is a vote for their block.


> So if after an election there are two different coalitions who both claim to be the best chance at a stable government, who makes the choice to go with one of them, or to call fresh elections?

We, here in the rest of the world, use a magic number to determine that. 51% (or 50% + 1).


Sure, that works fine when one party has 50%. But what happens when no-one does?


That was the case in the UK from 2010-2015. It's called a minority government.

Various factions horse trade until some coalition of parties has a majority, and then they rule as coalition. Members of both the Conservatives and Liberal-Democrats had cabinet seats.

The main downside to this sort of process is that sometimes negotiations take a long time. Belgium spent nearly two years bickering over forming their coalition in 2010.


> Sure, that works fine when one party has 50%. But what happens when no-one does?

Form a coalition that does or have new elections. You can even set a timeline after an election for a coalition to be in place or new elections are mandated by law.


That comment was literally about coalitions ...


Belgium does a great job of proving that that doesn't quite always work.


Belgium was the country that recovered fastest from the 2008 financial crash...


Yet we still pay a "crisisbijdrage" :P It's an additional tax on top of regular corporation tax.

EDIT: which seems to have been introduced in 1993 and never removed :-/


There are a ton of counterexamples and things in real life are measured by ratios of good to bad, not by proving that one case is false, like in math.


It's a great example of why cancel culture shouldn't be used to run a country.


> 51% (or 50% + 1).

Usually “smallest integer greater than 50%”, of which the other two are imperfect approximations.


> So if after an election there are two different coalitions who both claim to be the best chance at a stable government, who makes the choice to go with one of them, or to call fresh elections?

Why do you need to have someone make a choice? Have a set timeline for one of the other to secure the support of a Parliamentary majority or new elections are called by operation of law.


No it doesn't. You may have Barack Trump the friendly Clown as a costume and post different silent actors each week.




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