South Africa is unique in the sense that there is a strong problem of racism and violence by black people against white people. This is something very hard to understand and accept in the current political climate of the USA, but what it really shows is that all people are basically the same and racism has no color.
A super-interesting book this is Jonny Steinberg "A Man of Good Hope". The man in question is a Somali who, when he's being interviewed, does various jobs in the poorer parts of South Africa. And has interesting perspectives on things, and how they look "from below" as it were, as opposed to the more common outsider's impressions from people visiting from richer countries.
>Since its establishment the EFF has made a number of controversial racially or ethnically based statements about a number of South African minority groups. The EFF is widely criticised for inciting and perpetuating racism.[130][98][131] The EFF is known for staging controversial public protests aimed at increasing political support by driving race division and intolerance. Party practices have been defined as "fascist". [132][133][134][135][136][137][138] This approach has proved persuasive to a largely disenfranchised young black youth in South Africa who are mired by poverty, unemployment and inequality, where all minority groups, in particular whites, are singled out by party propaganda as the sole benefactors and drivers of inequality.
The BBC had a fairly objective review of data a few years back[1]
I think at least a few things need to be understood/considered in the context of "farm murders". There's been a growing movement from the EFF/ANC for "expropriation without compensation" of (primarily white-owned) farm land, so apart from any attacks there's a perception that the farmer's control of the land is illegitimate and must be taken by force.[2] Many of these attacks have also been horrifically violent, involving rape, prolonged torture, murder of children and the elderly, etc.[3][4]
'The white minority took our land. Enough is enough' - Julius Malema, EFF President and Commander-in-Chief
Lastly you need to think analogously to other countries - crime tends to be concentrated in poor, dense urban areas. For rural farmers to be murdered at a rate comparable to a dangerous inner city is extremely odd, and if you think the per-capita murder rate is closer to the high end of 150/100k vs. low end of 9/100k, you're talking about a level of ongoing violence seen almost nowhere else on earth.
Then separately there has been a recent/ongoing wave of violence against foreigners[5]:
A refugee from Democratic Republic of Congo told Human Rights Watch: “I was selling clothes on the street when nine South Africans carrying sjamboks and sticks came. They were beating people, shouting ‘You foreigners, go home! We don’t need you here! You are taking our jobs and money!’ I started to run away, but I was beaten, and my two bags of clothes were taken.”
In the US context this is difficult to comprehend since it's "black against black" xenophobia, but there's also the topic of racism against "coloureds" in South Africa. Perhaps one takeaway should be that Americans need to have a less parochial and US-centric understanding of other countries, which often have conflicts that don't smoothly map onto US politics and racial categorizations.
> The BBC had a fairly objective review of data a few years back
This is analogus to me asking for objective data about Afganistan...from the US.
I think you've missed my point entirely, either disregarding my concern for objectivity as invalid or you really do believe commonwealth countries, which are largely homogenous and/or majority white - are the best examples of objective views on a criminal/race driven murder in a majority black, African state.
I will continue nonetheless to ask for objectivity.
The call for expropriation without compensation isn't new nor is it growing. It's a regular part of South african political discourse since pre-1994. Nor is it a new concept, being a regular part of post war administration - see Post World War Japan[1], Korea and Taiwan for US involvement in land reform not dissimilar to South Africas land reform policy and make your own conclusion.
> racism towards coloureds
This comes off as grasping at straws. This would be national news. I would like to see evidence of this please.
> This is analogus to me asking for objective data about Afganistan...from the US.
They said objective review of data, not objective data. I would expect Americans are perfectly capable of objectively reviewing data about Afganistan. If you disagree, please provide evidence.
> disregarding my concern for objectivity as invalid or you really do believe commonwealth countries, which are largely homogenous and/or majority white - are the best examples of objective views on a criminal/race driven murder in a majority black, African state
Why not? Why does an analyst need to be black/African to be "objective"?
By the way, neither ad hominem attacks nor straw man arguments (farm murders) are useful - not only they bring nothing constructive, but encourage degragation of the discourse into emotional name-calling.
I'm very well aware of the history of SA and the suffering of black people. However, I don't think it justifies the attacks some white people experience in SA from some black people.
The "straw man arguments (farm murders)" refers to the fact that the original poster didn't mention farm murders, it was introduced into the conversation in order to attribute a weak argument to someone else in order to attack them on it, aka a straw man.
Now you say "Genocide of the White man is a myth in South Africa" - sure, but who mentioned anything to do with "Genocide"?
Why? The current mainstream narrative bothers me in several ways. First, you can often hear that racism against white people is not racism. Even the term "reverse-racism" was invented for that purpose! Second, Americans have a unique history and relationship between black and white populations, and they try to project the same relationship on other nations (there was a famous article by a black Brit who essentionally said, please don't involve black people in other countries into this).
I would hope HN is one of the few places where we can talk about sensitive issues like these in a civilized way, without microaggressions and trying to look at it objectively. I don't mind downvotes although I prefer rational arguments.
It depends on whether you understand racism as a systemic phenomenon that disenfranchises people, or as one group of people actively disliking another.
Your statement rests on the latter understanding, but that's inadequate for South Africa. There has not been centuries of injustice meted out to white people in addition to name calling. Even unintentional prejudice now from white people ends up affecting black people in South Africa far worse than hatred that just stops at words.
