> But it's not necessary to down talk where we're at to motivate improvement.
It is necessary if the general perception of where we're at is much better than where we're actually at. I think the U.S. still has a very strong cultural air of superiority which perhaps is no longer justified (if it ever was). The first step to solving a problem is to realize that it exists, and the U.S. educational system is only recently coming under scrutiny because of repeated criticisms of it.
> Students come out believing they can do anything.
I'm uncertain about this -- both whether it's true, and whether it's beneficial if true.
> They're not afraid to try new approaches.
Actually, there's a growing murmur of dissent that, at least in the special case of "gifted" children, the constant praise of their intelligence leads to a fear of failure which, in turn, leads to a fear of trying things which others might try without hesitation.
>Actually, there's a growing murmur of dissent that, at least in the special case of "gifted" children, the constant praise of their intelligence leads to a fear of failure which, in turn, leads to a fear of trying things which others might try without hesitation.
Citation needed. Speaking as a giftie myself, and someone who has many friends who went through various gifted programs, this is not my impression.
Googling for "praise effort not intelligence" will turn up a bunch more references, but most of them (at a glance) are referencing the same work by the same individual(s) (Dweck, et al). I didn't have this saved in my pinboard, so I had to go find it again.
I have to snark a little about a giftie not investigating this for themselves. (snark snark snark) :-)
> I have to snark a little about a giftie not investigating this for themselves. (snark snark snark) :-)
Hah. well, you are the one talking about effort being more important than intelligence. I, on the other hand, have always been lazy. I was in the program through ability alone.[1]
I mean, clearly effort matters. But ability matters, too. Otherwise I'd be working at the 7-11 like my parents said I would if I didn't go to college.[2] Of course, if you can't do anything about innate ability and you can do something about effort, "praise effort not ability" makes sense, as you should try to improve the thing that can be improved, right?
On the other hand, I think effort has limitations, too. As a kid, I was pulled out of the "gifted" class one hour a day to work in the "special ed" room. Handwriting. My stepmother made me spend probably five hours a week practicing my handwriting at home on top of that. To this day I can't write a legible sentence.
I think key is to put effort in to areas where that effort makes a difference. Consume all the low hanging fruit before you start scaling a sequoia looking for pine nuts.
[1] the ability to do well on standardized tests, that is. I've never had to learn to work a cash register, so it's gotta correlate to something useful, but I'm first to say that I'm really not all that bright.
[2] Actually, considering my schedule variance, I wonder if I could hold down a job where the primary performance metric was "did the guy show up on time?"
I am also very familiar with the gifted education community and numerous families of people who have been identified as gifted learners, and the research finding reported in the article submitted to open this thread rings true, based on my experience.
Back in the day, I was also in my school's gifted programs and I had a fear of failure. But, it was because my family was poor. I knew that I was solely responsible for my attendance at college and that academic scholarships were my "golden ticket" for that. Similarly, some of my friends feared sports injuries because athletic prowess was their ticket to college.
someone who was put into a "gifted and talented" program at a public school. Usually the entrance criteria is based on how you do on a G-correlated standardized test. "Giftie" was the traditional derogatory term for those students.
> But it's not necessary to down talk where we're at to motivate improvement.
It is necessary if the general perception of where we're at is much better than where we're actually at. I think the U.S. still has a very strong cultural air of superiority which perhaps is no longer justified (if it ever was). The first step to solving a problem is to realize that it exists, and the U.S. educational system is only recently coming under scrutiny because of repeated criticisms of it.
> Students come out believing they can do anything.
I'm uncertain about this -- both whether it's true, and whether it's beneficial if true.
> They're not afraid to try new approaches.
Actually, there's a growing murmur of dissent that, at least in the special case of "gifted" children, the constant praise of their intelligence leads to a fear of failure which, in turn, leads to a fear of trying things which others might try without hesitation.