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Personally I'd like to go back to an age before social media. It seems social media has had limited substantive success for anyone and has really created more problems than it's worth.

Historically I've avoided expressing my views on abolishment but now people are trying to develop fear-mongering strategies around decentralization, so here I am back at abolition. I'd love to find a happy medium but I don't think it's possible. Social media companies, search companies, national news (who is dependent on social media for income), politicians (who are dependent on social media for likes and shares), and law enforcement working in coordination to do an arbitrarily good thing (disrupt the flow of misinformation) was both eye opening and terrifying. These tools can be used for good but they're also the keystone tools of autocracy and are used largely for reasons that require interpretation and narrative following.

My point is that we don't need these kind of problems. We have space exploration ahead of us, major advancements in technology are still needed, and we need a continuum of people who are willing to work together despite whatever differences they may have ideologically and otherwise. I don't think limiting scope or killing virility will achieve these ends.




So I like social media, and get a lot of benefit from it. I like that it's free and supported by targeted ads, rather than a paid service.

Since we disagree, and I imagine there are many people with the same opinions as both you and me, why not make it opt-in, so you only encounter social media if you choose to make an account, and then still only see it if you go to it and/or install it intentionally? Wait, that's how it is now...


Social media isn't opt-in though. Facebook has routinely collected data on non-Facebook users, my name/likeness/content can appear on social media without my consent, and there are hardly controls for protecting such things in any meaningful sense.

I deleted Instagram months ago and I have friends that have routinely told me that profile is still up, just in a limited capacity. How is this opt-in?

An even better example of it's non-opt-in nature is that I went as far as to ban all social media via my VPN and router. The result was unexpected when looking at American news, it often quotes from and derives sources from social media. Reading news articles that were mostly Twitter statements or reactions made it hard to discern what the articles were even about in the first place.


> I deleted Instagram months ago and I have friends that have routinely told me that profile is still up, just in a limited capacity. How is this opt-in?

Did you temporarily disable your account instead of deleting it? Deletion appears to only be available from web/mobile web, which is not great but deletion is only three steps. [1]

[1] https://help.instagram.com/370452623149242


I actually deleted it. I used the web application to delete it. I ended up having to search for how to do it because the process was rather buried.


You're talking about 3 very different things here.

1) You're saying social media isn't opt in because they're tracking users off of their social media platform. This doesn't have anything to do with social media, but rather the pages you're going to have chosen to use a service provided by Facebook to track users. They could use another behavior targeting service, but chose Facebook's.

2) You're saying Instagram deletion didn't work. It sounds like you deactivated it instead of deleted it. I haven't heard this be an issue (it'd be widely reported if it were)

3) You're saying it's not opt-in because people refer to it in the news. In that case, nothing is opt-out because people have the right to refer to anything they want. Making this opt-out would mean censoring other people from saying things online or referring to things online, because of your views.


1. That is still Facebook violating my privacy. How about if I create a virtual profile of you on a page of my website, list it in a search engine, and provide unverified (and likely false) information about you that can also be damaging? Would your feelings change or would you continue to let me run your public profile out of principle as you've described here?

2. I have already answered this. I deleted it. I'm happy to share the email that shows I deleted it, not deactivated. I additionally deleted my data as well, so I have two emails to share if you so desire.

3. There are websites that do this and it's not considered censoring. Reddit regularly has rules against doxxing or naming as well as proper attribution. People have gone as far as to setup bots and alerts to remove information or give proper attribution. This idea is not revolutionary and your presentation of it is maximalist at best.


I didn't see the other post and I believe you. If you say you deleted it, and they didn't, I think we'd both agree that's a problem they should fix or change.

I think the issues you're describing don't have anything to do with the social media service aspect, but more like bad practices of an online company. So I'd agree we should push for online tech companies to fix many issues, including security issues and offsite tracking and proper attribution, etc.

But I don't believe in your original argument that we should abolish social media, because a lot of people want to use social media and it's not your right to stop them.


Sure, there are probably multiple ways we can improve the ecosystem with the same net effect.

> But I don't believe in your original argument that we should abolish social media, because a lot of people want to use social media and it's not your right to stop them.

I'm happy to give up decentralization or abolishment if someone can find a way to ensure that social media is treated like the extension to free speech that it is, that privacy is ensured strongly, and that virality is a thing of the past.


It’s great that you opted in, shared your address book and uploaded a load of pictures and meticulously tagged your friends in the pictures.

It’s not great for anyone in your address book or photos that didn’t opt in.


How do I opt-out my young child, who is part of a generation that if they don't opt-in are subject to intense social stigma? I mean I know how the mechanics work, but we are talking about applying "old curmudgeon who doesn't know modern life" views on a new generation. I don't think you succeed here (I am not weighing in on whether or not we SHOULD do this btw) without going all-in.


We're long past mere social stigma; even before coronavirus, school classes used WhatsApp for coordination, home assignments, exam reads, etc.


Modern life is not all about being part of social media. Thanks to social media younger generation now are more depressive than ever.


Firstly, as others have pointed out, these companies collect information on people who have never opted in.

Secondly, they purposely set up a walled garden such that you can't see some things unless you make an account. Like say, the thousands of businesses with no website but only a Facebook presence. Or reading political discourse directly from politicians on Twitter. Or, as is very often noted, the easiest place to get support from companies seems to be on social media.

The latter isn't really easy to solve. One can say who cares, don't join then. But it can put you at certain disadvantages.


Platforms like Facebook are not realistically opt-in. Thats actually why social networks work. Its a self-reinforcing mechanism that makes it punitive to leave.


Does this count as social media? If yes, why should we abolish hacker news? If no, What is your definition of "social media"?


"before social media"? You mean like about 4000 years ago ;) I was in Pompeii a couple years ago, and saw lots of 2000 year old social media.




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