> they strike me as the sort of thing that is routinely addressed in the camera-ready version of papers by adding a few lines to the related work section
What I don't understand is why in the discussion nobody proposed amending the paper rather than withdrawing it. If Dean's issue was it didn't cite papers X,Y and Z, rather than demand a withdrawal, why didn't he just demand "I want you to amend the paper to add cites to X,Y,Z". And then, if Gebru and her coauthors were willing to add those cites, that would resolve it.
Indeed, from what I understand, "you should add a cite to X" is common peer review feedback, and a lot of papers get citations added due to requests from peer reviewers. So this isn't hugely different from that scenario.
It would seem that withdrawal over this issue would only make sense if Gebru and her coauthors refused to amend the paper to add the requested citations, but I haven't heard anything saying that she did refuse to do so. It isn't clear if the alternative solution of amending rather than withdrawing was ever brought up in the discussion by either party.
Not that I'm a researcher or anything, but if I was, and a superior told me "we need you to withdraw your paper because it doesn't cite X,Y,Z", my immediate response would be "How about I add the citations you are requesting and resubmit it with those additions?"
Jeff's document says she submitted without asking for approval, so the request was to withdraw that unapproved submission. It is reasonable to interpret that as permission to revise and resubmit. She seems to have had her heart set on this particular conference and submission deadline.
That’s not what it says, though. It says her paper was approved, she submitted, and then a reviewer had a complaint. He seems to be deliberately vague here to make it seem as if she was acting without permission, but as I read it she had a vid reason to submit. This lines up with other people in the thread saying submitting hours before the deadline was risky, but common.
It's just weird that I'm pretty sure that the reasons for the request to withdraw was for reasons of the scholarly quality of the work, not for corporate reasons like protecting corporate information, which from what I understand is the job of the reviewers of the conferences and not Google. Especially because other people who work in her department have gone on record saying that withdrawal requests purely due to paper quality never happen and internal review is purely for corporate secrecy reasons.
None of this is adding up to the process issue Dean is claiming.
> What I don't understand is why in the discussion nobody proposed amending the paper rather than withdrawing it. If Dean's issue was it didn't cite papers X,Y and Z, rather than demand a withdrawal, why didn't he just demand "I want you to amend the paper to add cites to X,Y,Z". And then, if Gebru and her coauthors were willing to add those cites, that would resolve it.
Unless corporate tells you to kill the paper and you need something that resembles legal cover.
More specifically, she stated in her original email [0]:
>Have you ever heard of someone getting “feedback” on a paper through a privileged and confidential document to HR? Does that sound like a standard procedure to you or does it just happen to people like me who are constantly dehumanized?
So she did get feedback of some kind, though my reading is that it was probably vague legalese that she reasonably deemed insufficient.
In Timnit's account, she said she asked for specific feedback so it could be addressed and the paper published; this was denied to her and is part of her complaint over which she resigned.
One thing I don't understand about this situation is which of the following was she denied:
(1) the substance of the feedback and actionable specifics (e.g. "you didn't cite X")
(2) the actual text of the feedback (if it was given in written form)
If she was denied (1), I agree that is grossly unfair. If she was denied (2) but granted (1), I don't think that is so unreasonable. If feedback is anonymous, sharing its exact text can give away who gave it (you can often work out who wrote something just from the style of language the author used, especially if these are people you know and work closely with.)
If she was given actionable specifics ("add a cite to X"), then knowing who it came from and the exact text of it is irrelevant and I don't think she has a right to it. If she was denied actionable specifics, that is grossly unfair to her. I think one difficulty is that her account makes it sound like she was denied that, Dean's makes it sound like she wasn't, I wasn't there so I don't know whose account is more accurate.
It sounds like, after pressing the point, she was allowed to have her manager read the feedback to her, without sharing the author or process by which feedback was solicited. So, not provided in written form, but the substance would be received.
However, she was also told that the paper was to be retracted and that she wouldn't be allowed to address the feedback and keep the paper published. So the form in which the feedback was provided was immaterial.
For example suppose that Timnit was told to withdraw after an incomplete review indicates that they don't want to publish. If she asked at that time for a complete list of things to fix, nobody can give it to her because the review isn't finished. Nor can they produce it in a timely matter because it takes time to do the review.
Later the detailed feedback is ready. And if she wanted to submit the paper elsewhere, she could have fixed it and done so. But by then things have blown up and it is too late.
What I don't understand is why in the discussion nobody proposed amending the paper rather than withdrawing it. If Dean's issue was it didn't cite papers X,Y and Z, rather than demand a withdrawal, why didn't he just demand "I want you to amend the paper to add cites to X,Y,Z". And then, if Gebru and her coauthors were willing to add those cites, that would resolve it.
Indeed, from what I understand, "you should add a cite to X" is common peer review feedback, and a lot of papers get citations added due to requests from peer reviewers. So this isn't hugely different from that scenario.
It would seem that withdrawal over this issue would only make sense if Gebru and her coauthors refused to amend the paper to add the requested citations, but I haven't heard anything saying that she did refuse to do so. It isn't clear if the alternative solution of amending rather than withdrawing was ever brought up in the discussion by either party.
Not that I'm a researcher or anything, but if I was, and a superior told me "we need you to withdraw your paper because it doesn't cite X,Y,Z", my immediate response would be "How about I add the citations you are requesting and resubmit it with those additions?"