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This is absolutely right. The best games now are from independent developers who are themselves barely making it. The games you listed were some of the breakout successes of indie games but there are a ton of fun, interesting indie games out there that are dying from lack of revenue.

There seems to be an overall issue now where the quality of the good produced and the benefit to the consumer is divorced from the value extracted by the producer.

For instance, you can make a mobile game company that aggressively monetizes re-hashed bubble-poppers or match three games. With that, you focus not on innovation of pleasing the customer but on making the most money per customer so that you can feed it back into your marketing. The most exploitative game wins.

This is a more profitable strategy than simply trying to make a fun game that people want to play.

With most consumer markets, we find similar stories of customer exploitation being a better play than simply making a great product. This is not as much the case in B2B.

How do we reign back in the markets? It doesn't seem like consumer choice is working out very well.

Maybe marketing is at the core of all of this malignment.




> The best games now are from independent developers who are themselves barely making it.

I wish it was true, at least for my favorite genre. Technically speaking, a small team of developers can create excellent games when it comes to creativity, design, playability etc. but for some titles there is need for a good story, then turning it into acceptable animations, large worlds, complex graphics etc. that's where probably only a major game house can deliver because of the number of writers, developers, designers, actors needed. My favorite games of all time were the Mass Effect trilogy; they were technically great, but the writing, character development, voicing and direction was their point of excellence. I would take ME1-3 story arc over most recent titles. Unfortunately many game studios think only in terms of FPS and technical trivialities that cannot turn a dull story plastered with FPS scenes into something that one still remembers after 10 years. Not been a gamer for a while, so I may have missed a lot lately and would love to be proven wrong (details welcome!).


take a look at Nier: Automata or Dragon Age (1-2, and/or Inquisition). Both easily enjoyable if you like ME.


These are all great games with huge art budgets. Nothing remotely indie about them.


yeah, GP kinda made it clear that they weren’t looking for indie games


It's like when people considered "Star Citizen" an indie game


Seconding Nier: Automata. Rarely have I been as blown away by a game as I was with that one.


Thirding (?) this. The integration of gameplay elements into the story and the story itself are simply amazing. It is similar to Undertale, in that the gameplay is relatively shallow, but is paced perfectly with the story.


Fourthing.

I hate fighting games. I especially despise melee action games. I don't love 3rd person perspective. I haven't really played JRPGs.

Nier:Automata jumped at the top of my list and kept getting better. Even my (non-gaming) wife watched me playing because she was curious and the art and story were fantastic.

A unique experience that is difficult to put into a review. FWIW, my other favourites are Mass Effect, Deus Ex, lots of Sierra & Lucasarts point & click games, etc.

Story telling and surprises (and style) in NieR:Automata were just top notch.


Platinum Games is not an indie studio.


Artistism gap between indie and AAA isn't as big in Japan as in USA, AAA gets more polygons but that's about the only difference.


This, weeb games for the win.


Many indie developers are barely making it. Some are killing it. New ideas come from indies, but sometimes from big companies too. Big companies depend on distribution and marketing, small companies depend on innovation. I have been in video games for twenty five years. It has always been like that.


Where it seems to have broken down is via vertical integration.

When publishers were publishers and developers were developers (80s and 90s), it seemed like there was healthier competition. Even if there were a lot of abusive deals struck.

Now that we have giant, integrated publisher + development conglomerates, there's zero incentive to step out of that structure to publish a popular indie game.

It feels like news sites prohibiting links to external sites, and the world's the poorer.


I strongly disagree. No publisher or developer conglomerate dominates today more than Sega, Nintendo, or EA did at different times 25- 30 years ago. The past always looks great in retrospect. Today's ecosystem is so much more diverse.


It feels like the video games industry has done the reverse of Hollywood.

Hollywood went from a vertically integrated system that handled production, distribution, and exhibition by a single entity to a system where production, distribution, and exhibition were done by separate entities.

It feels like game development went the reverse way.


It's important to note that the only reason that Hollywood went from a vertically integrated system to a disaggregated one is because the US Government filed an antitrust suit that forced the disaggregation [1]. And now that that antitrust pressure is gone, we see Hollywood slowly returning to a vertically integrated system, where studios, distribution networks and theaters are all operating in close conjunction to push movies that "ought" to be profitable [2].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pic....

[2]: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/the-slow-death-of-hollywo...


Someone can correct me, but I'd put blame for the trend on EA / Madden NFL (~1990?).

It showed what kind of profits you could make off yearly refreshes of software, while minimizing development costs.

Why would an MBA take a chance on new IP when they have the above as an option?


Yes and no. Big companies do development, but they don't necessarily do more development than they used to. EA and Activision actually probably develop fewer titles than they did twenty years ago. They just spend a lot more on each title.

But again: Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Nintendo have always been vertically integrated. This is not new.


Might be apocryphal, but legend has it Bethesda escaped bankruptcy by taking massive chances with Morrowind. They wanted to go out with a bang, and, creatively, the result was amazing.

That success and the fortune they now had to protect seemed to hemorrhage their creativity or vision or concern. After that, we got Oblivion and Skyrim. Nice but very safe and uninspired games. And the best Fallout was the one from Obsidian Entertainment, not Bethesda Game Studios.

Success kills? Money kills?


Squaresoft did the same thing. Their big creative "here goes the company" game was to be their final project. Final Fantasy.


Sixteen FF titles, a dozen spin offs, and two feature films later...


Sounds like one of these word documents. Fantasy_v3_4\ shared\ final\ alpha\ no-really-this-time\ beta5.docx


With limited resources, bad ideas are ruthlessly trashed.

With limitless resources, all ideas are valid.


That's not it. When you have a profitable IP, the expected value is so high that variance offers you nothing, and hurts. When you have nothing, expected value is so low that high variance ideas are the best -- bankruptcy takes away the sting of negative income.


  How do we reign back in the markets? It doesn't seem like consumer choice is working out very well.
consumer choice is working as intended. They are fine playing "free" games supported by the 1%, and many nowadays won't pay >5-10 dollars for a game unless it's from a very established IP.

Even without the mobile market, The story isn't much different. You either throw yourself out there in a sea of indie games, or you find a publisher to pitch and give your IP rights to in exchange for stability. The latter is just harder to do nowadays


If we're willing to regulate gambling (which we are, because we do regulate it), then I don't think we can simply wave our hands at mobile games and say "bah, consumer choice. They play the games, don't they?"


For what it's worth, the "Free to Play" sector that dominates a lot of market share isn't just the gambling-lite, pay-to-win mobile sector anymore. We're talking about major titles like Fortnite, League of Legends, DOTA2, Rocket League, Hearthstone, and Valorant, which have millions of concurrent players, dominate streaming services, and often have high-production e-sports events. Even the latest title in the Call of Duty franchise offers a Free to Play Battleground mode.


The issues with gambling are nothing to do with the arcana of business structures and everything to do with gambling itself.

Gambling ruined games like porn ruined movies -- it didn't. It's just a different partially similar thing.


However gambling did ruin many areas of entertainment. E.g. Live music suffered immensely in my home country as pubs preferred to fill the stages with pokies as they made more money from gambling addicts then they did from having a live band around.

Same deal with games, many previously good IPs are now stuffed with gambling mechanics as the producers controlling it push for it.


Some people enjoy gambling, I guess? That doesn't necessarily mean that they're being exploited or that they're "ruining" games.

I too dislike gambling elements in computer games. I simply choose not to buy such games. If there was a shortage of good games without gambling mechanics, I could see your point. But clearly there's not.


You're spot on and I wish we knew what to do about it. I think there's a very good parallel between music and games, in both industries it's possible to create great works with innovation, creativity and not much capital. Unfortunately the greatest works don't necessarily bubble up to the top, because the money isn't in producing them, it's in controlling the channels of distribution.

There was great optimism 20+ years ago that the Internet would change this with music, artists would have direct access to their fans, the middle man would be eliminated, and the major labels would crumble. That's not what we got, we just ended up with a new group of megacorps like Apple and Google and Spotify duking it out with the old majors for control of distribution.

To have watched these dreams die in the music industry and see a very similar dynamic unfolding in the digital native industry of games makes me think that maybe this isn't a technology issue, maybe it's something that runs deeper in society and the way people are wired. Then again if we go way back we can argue that the problem was created by technology in the first place (monopolies on music distribution were impossible back when everything was live, they only emerged once we devised technology for recording and copying audio!).


> The best games now are from independent developers

Some Indie games are great, but there are still lot of really great big budget story based games being made that an Indie studio just couldn't produce.

>This is a more profitable strategy than simply trying to make a fun game that people want to play.

Still loads of high quality, very profitable, games being made e.g. RDR2, TLoU2, HZD, Ghost of Tsushima, Uncharted, Spiderman, Doom, Gears, Halo, Ratchet & Clank, Cyberpunk2077 (CDPR can't be considered indie anymore), Forza, Gran Turismo etc.

Sony in particular is really delivering with their single player story based, big budget games.


To use cyberpunk as an example because it's one of my favorite genres, I wonder how many of the people who buy Cyberpunk2077 will have ever even heard of Shadowrun Dragonfall by Harebrained Schemes, or Technobabylon by Wadjet Eye Games. I'm pretty sure that while CP2077 has a vastly larger budget for art, code and Keanu Reeves, it won't even come close to these games in terms of narrative, atmosphere etc.


> Maybe marketing is at the core of all of this malignment.

Just a thought: You got these big "movie budget" games. They need to make that budget back, so they use (a large part of the budget for) marketing, in order to sell way more games. This then consumes a very large part of the market. Problem now is that a large chunk of the money made in the majority of the market is spent on marketing. And this chunk of money is locked in with the industry giants, the indies and smaller devs can never get to it. Marketing ate part of the gaming industry.


> The best games now are from independent developers who are themselves barely making it.

That's a highly subjective statement, and a blanket one at that.

You could also say that the worst games are made by independent developers and that would also be true at the same time, because "independent developers" is far from being a consistent group.


> The best games now are from independent developers who are themselves barely making it.

....yayy?




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