I think that’s what the extreme elements of various groups want you to believe. Creating Shibboleths out of so many things is yet another way to drive people apart. Fact is that many people have no idea what Gates does, nor do they care - regardless of which US political party they support.
I'm not so sure. While Epstein committed heinous crimes, he certainly must have had other legitimate interests when he wasn't doing them. People aren't one dimensional.
The implication the above person is making is that one's beliefs around epstein depends on their political leaning.
But, people are complicated. I remember reading somewhere that he was a generous donor to a number of schools & STEM programs, that he was a patron of the sciences, and an abhorrent sex offender. They aren't exactly mutually exclusive, but just goes to show how people are complex and multifaceted
That Bill Gates is using the Coronavirus vaccine to implant microchips into civilization for population control and that he's harvesting the blood of children so that he can extract adrenochrome -- Definitely some pretty unhinged conspiracy theories. Of which apparently nearly half of American Republicans believe them?
> since it is perceived as being closer to libertarian views because they pay some lip service to the idea of small government
I've always found that "libertarian is closer to Republican than Democrat" take from libertarians mildly exasperating. There's a case for it economically, but in terms of social policy Republicans have long been pretty damn supportive of the state restricting individual liberty, whether on a federal level (abortion, LGBT rights, etc.) or a state level (the myriad ways "states' rights" has been used as a cover for blatant discrimination). It's depressing that so many libertarians have decided, when push comes to shove, that higher taxes are worse than calculated bigotry -- and, as you note, increasingly conspiratorial nonsense.
I mean yes, libertarianism at its core is a terribly flawed ideology because it fails to account for the phenomenon of the tragedy of the commons. The market forces they believe in do not react quickly enough to avert environmental or health disasters. That said, I have a level of sympathy for the ideal of everyone having a full agency of their body and their actions. It’s just that it’s a utopian ideal that fails to work in practice if adopted to its conclusion.
The Founding Fathers knew that the voters are simply not qualified to self-govern. People who thought they knew better, over the centuries, threw away most of the barriers they placed between the voter and the government.
I'll agree that the conspiracies you mention are unhinged. However, cursory research will reveal that Gates and Gates Sr. have both been involved with the eugenics movement.
It is unfortunate how unhinged criticisms are used to dismiss what is hiding in plain sight.
>"So Melinda and I wondered if providing new medicines and keeping children alive, would that create more of a population problem?"
GATES: Here we can see a chart that looks at the total world population over the last several hundred years, and at first glance this is a bit scary. We go from less than a billion in 1800, and then 3, 4, 5, 6—and 7.4 billion, where we are today, is happening even faster. So, Melinda and I wondered whether providing new medicines and keeping children alive, would that create more of a population problem?
SCOTT PELLEY: . . . and what the developing world does not need is more children.
MELINDA GATES: And I think that was the biggest “ah-ha” to Bill and me when we got into this work. Because we asked ourselves, of course, the same hard-nosed question you’d ask, which is: “If you get into this work and you start to save these children, will women just keep overpopulating the world?” And thank goodness, the converse is absolutely true.
This conspiracy theory really angers me, like almost on a personal level. I've actually cut all ties to a friend who started spreading it on FB. I first tried to show them how insane it is and thought I'd succeeded, but they seemed to continue to feed off of antivaxxer propaganda and soon began sharing that crap again. After a second attempt I just gave up.
That has several reasons. I will explain why your approach didn't work.
1: (source) Social media is doing reinforcement learning on their "lab rats". This is true for all the social media platforms. It's not like you read one fake news article, you see them non-stop: your world becomes fake news. Just like how YouTube keeps playing the same type of content. Facebook and Twitter do the same thing. Good for engagement ($), not good for society.
2: (psychology) The way the human belief system works, is to try to find evidence in favor of your own beliefs (not against). Social media reinforces your existing belief system: your political, religious but also conspiracy beliefs. Our ego doesn't like to be wrong, we like to be right (see heated debated about adults discussing religion for example). Humans aren't particular open-minded by nature, this sometimes includes scientists. This is human psychology at work.
3: (state sponsored, large budget) There are large botnets spreading fake news: including deep fakes, bogus scientific articles, using famous figures etc. It's very sophisticated psychological warfare: a day-time job for many. For instance, the son of President Kennedy made a speech about mass surveillance (facts), but in doing so he supported the whole conspiracy scene. But AI botnets spreading fake news is something many governments do. Like all mass media news, it plays on the sub-conscious level (fear), not the logical level. The entire goal of media (news) is to manipulate, not inform. Social media is just better at manipulation.
4: (propaganda effect) Like any propaganda, it's mixed with reality: stories of Epstein, Bill Clinton, Climate Change etc. This makes it more difficult to disprove a story.
4: (the effect) For any system (including the human brain): garbage in, garbage out. Watch this junk to long, and you start to become crazy yourself. Yes, even you yourself can be manipulated by social media + AI botnets. In fact, entire countries are manipulated using social media (cambridge analytica didn't stop it, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24474343 ).
5: (why) From Zen Tsu quote "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."
Think about it: Who benefits from "defund the police", "overthrow the government", riots in the street, "bill gates wants to kill the world" etc ?
The technique is called subversion and was designed in the Soviet Union. You can watch the historic presentations by Yuri Bezmenov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
Subversion didn't stop, it just evolved into the digital sphere. Now combined with AI and reinforcement machines (social networks).
Probably this answer could have been shorter, but I'm to tired to write fewer words.
There are a lot of Republicans on HN, and it is reflected in the downvoting of posts like yours.
Once in a while, you find posts that advocate for basic common sense or human decency, and they will be greyed out because they touched a nerve that make Republicans uncomfortable.
It is funny that the people that claim to be against political correctness and are constantly glorifying toughness are also the most sensitive and sometimes even coward (e.g.: downvoting instead of replying).
You may find that you are getting downvoted by people of all ideological persuasions because your post invites partisan bickering rather than furthering a dialog of curious discussion.
I can't downvote you but I would if I could. The reason republicans/conservatives believe more in conspiracy theories is because part of their group ideology has become being mistrustful of authority (established media, tech and science). This can lead a higher percentage of their population into some pretty hopeless beliefs but sometimes I can't blame them, seeing the utter foolery of many elites in science and technology (and the media) thinking that by erasing tried and true institutions they can magically make society function better than the most successful set of ideologies ever to have happened to humankind (innocent until proven guilty, freedom of speech, free market, etc). Generalizations like the one you made above merit downvotes. There are more reasons to be conservative than those conspiracy theories.
I am slowly coming to believe established media is the worst culprit of all. If everything I see on the major networks (Times, CNN, etc) that a generation ago provided clear journalism and now simply proclaim that tearing down institutions is the only way forward - where am I to go if I don't buy the propaganda? There is a truth power vacuum at play here because no one is willing to give up their ridiculous partisan hackery.
Thanks for replying, I appreciate you took the time to write this, even if we are in disagreement with respect to our views.
Just like I have taken the time to read your comment, I have taken the time to read many other comments, thousands of them, and talked to different people of different backgrounds from all over the US.
Like you, I also keep certain level of skepticism towards the press, although I understand that there are still valuable journalists with integrity out there. Freedom of the press is important, and the few ethical journalists devoted to service our society need our support and attention.
Freedom of religion is another freedom enshrined in the constitution, yet, I do not hear Conservatives acknowledging that very often. This administration tried to implement a islamophobic travel ban that affected lawful American citizens and permanent residents. That is unacceptable.
Then, the president is asking people to vote twice, and talking about "negotiating a 3rd term". He has also talked of postponing the election, and there are pictures of USPS mail sorting machines disassembled, with their cables cut, just before the election. Does all of that sound democratic or patriotic to you?
As a person with hispanic relatives, seeing hispanic kids being bullied in schools with "build the wall" chants, and seeing newborns and infants detained under torturous conditions... And after weeks of scandals, they get a visit from the first lady wearing an "I don't really care" jacket. Be a real man and tell me: are you OK with all this? Are you going to blame a newborn or months old infant for their inhuman treatment in American detainment centers?
And there's science. Science does understand the behavior of gases. The physical and chemical processes related to gases are well understood and many experiments with gases can be accurately reproduced and simulated. We have satelites monitoring the atmosphere and scientists analyzing the earth geological record and the seas... We are usually not skeptical of science when we see a steam engine or internal combustion engine at work. But this week, we saw the president saying "I don't think science knows, actually", when being asked to acknowledge climate change, in the context of massive fires in California, Washington and Oregon.
And finally: the catastrophic response to the COVID pandemic... Prior to the pandemic, the pandemic response team was disbanded. Then, the president repeteadly claims that the virus is contained, and that there's nothing to worry about. And then, when the virus cannot be covered up anymore, Trump suggests Americans to ingest bleach, and his supporters oppose CDC guidelines. As a result of all that, now there is a massive GDP contraction, unemployment and yet unknown long-term economic consequences.
So, tl;dr: I don't really think there are a lot of good reasons to vote Republican, or to have restraint and respect in the face of what's going on right now. Enough is enough.
I don't think we actually disagree on _any_ of your points. I was merely explaining an alternative perspective that I can respect and acknowledge. I will note too that I got plenty of downvotes as well (without any response but yours I might add). You certainly can see that people will behave as such from both sides of the spectrum. There is no way in hell I am going to vote for Trump. I can just understand why people would. I might also add as a pro-life person it rings a bit hollow talking about newborn mistreatment (terrible though it might be) when our society can literally kill unborn babies on a whim. One can be pro-life (conservative) and pro-environment (liberal somehow?) in the same breath!
Forcing women to terminate a pregnancy that is the product of rape inevitably results in encouraging rape. I think in those cases abortion is justified.
In the other hand, I do not support second trimester abortions with no strong justification behind them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...