which then begs the question: if you spent your whole life working more, and focusing on getting more money, assuming that you can retire in your 50s, can you REALLY stop working?
or will you depress yourself because there's nothing else to do?
retiring early seems great on paper, but at what cost?
That seems overly dramatic. Yes, you can retire in your 50s (or 30s-40s with a good paying job) and stop working. There is always plenty to do in this great wide world that we live in if you have even a modicum of imagination.
Yet going on the FIRE or fatFIRE (financial independence, retire early) forums you encounter countless examples of people who achieve early retirement and lose their minds. They’re bored because they worked so hard and no longer know what to do with themselves. They didn’t spend any time developing other interests or hobbies because they were engrossed in chasing the paycheck. Some are so engrossed in chasing the money that they don’t even stop to consider what they MIGHT do if they retire early.
I think that might be confirmation bias. The people who happily retire and have the freedom to do whatever they want are less likely to talk about it on a forum; they'll just go live their lives. Conversely, if a person banks all of their happiness on retiring early and then is unhappy they are more likely to talk about it on a forum. It's a similar phenomenon to the prevalence of negative reviews outweighing positive reviews.
I rarely seem to see that on the FIRE forums. It seems like 99% of people on those forums are trying to achieve FIRE, and very little discussion about those who have.
When you have been indocrinated your whole life that work is what defines you "Hi, this is John, he's a software engineer/banker/barista/etc", it's difficult to let go.
My wife once talked to an elderly lady that was working in her 80s because she said she had nothing to do, as she had worked all her life in multiple jobs.
I guess imagination gets eroded when you are conditioned to be a wage slave for too long.
My 82-year old relative is like this. She's so accustomed to working hard all her life that even when she could retire easily on alimony and pension, she's so wired to work hard in blue-collar work. She works at a natural foods store and is such a superstar she got some kind of regional (like multi-state US) employee year award. That's what makes her happy. She genuinely likes to serve other people, too. Definitely not my thing but I have infinite respect for it. All about that eudaimonia.
Edit: all the constant activity (always had hobbies on the side too) has kept her in good physical shape plus decent diet and she's Japanese. Definite oba-tank who will probably soldier on well past 100.
or you can buy it yourself. budget for it like any other expense. it's not necessarily cheap, but it's not something so astronomical that no one can afford it at all. Many people somehow find $700/month for their favorite SUV, but $700/month for health insurance is unattainable.
I'm not saying the system is great - I'm in favor of single-payer system overall. But tying access to health insurance to employment as a default mindset really has to be stopped, somehow.
Most of the people for whom $700/month for health insurance is unattainable are not spending $700/month on car payments. There's bound to be some overlap, sure, but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month in order to not go bankrupt from health expenses is insane.
"but let's keep the focus on the fact that expecting everyone to pay $700/month"
Everyone's paying it, in one manner or another, either through subsidies, or employer contributions, or paying direct. These are the average costs (relative to location and age) for health insurance plans from for-profit health insurance companies.
But the context was with respect to people planning to retire in their 50s. Plenty of people budget for car payments, and they can budget for health insurance costs too.
I was going to point that out myself. yes. many people do end up continuing that cycle, although there is some ability to stop which is different than other more pressing things (like insurance).
The maximum monthly payment you can have for german public health insurance is 14.6% of 4.687,50 EUR per month in 2020 - that's about 800USD. Mind you, maximum, not average.
14.6% of your wage is the health insurance deductible, 4.687,50 EUR is the so-called "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze", that is the cap from which on your wage is free - it's regularly adjusted (upwards usually).
You can reach that maximum if you are self employed and voluntarily member of the public health insurance - meaning you have to pay both the employers and the employees share. If you're employed, your employer pays about half of it.
Your chosen health insurance can optionally add an extra fee, usually less than a percent or two, most are free.
How does this work if you're unemployed? Is there a separate public option? Or do you just keep on with whatever you may have had before, without paying?
Also, that "maximum/wage" thing - is that per person, or for a household (spouse/kids/etc)?
The level of care is independent of your payment, if you're unemployed you're still covered without payment, students are covered for free until they're 27 (there are ways to loose coverage, but just being unemployed is not one). Like the sibling comment pointed out: if you're living of savings, there's a minimum payment.
The cap is per wage, so every person earning a wage gets the same cap applied to their individual income. (one of the ways that households with a single high earner profit, while two people earning a moderate wage have less). No bonus for kids here, buy if you're member of the public health insurance, your kid is covered for free.
If you're on unemployment or welfare payments the state pays for you. If you live off savings and don't have income you can pay a base rate (a little bit below 200€).
Very out of touch comment. People worried about Health insurance are not paying $700/month for a monthly car payment.
Maybe instead of trying to paint the problem of american healthcare access as a mindset issue, you can recognize that there are many legitimate problems with linking healthcare to employment.
Why should anyone go broke over a medical expense? Why in a developed country? Why is that only a common fear in the US?
In the context of retiring early and planning for expenses, it's not out of touch. If someone is planning on retiring by their 50s, they surely have thought of health insurance and put it in their budget.
I pay $800/month on top of what my employer covers for our health insurance. And it's still worse insurance than what most of my friends and family have. If you work for a small company or are trying to buy off the marketplace, health insurance is insanely expensive.
If you're working for a megacorp, they might be self-funding their own insurance plan. Otherwise, it is just 'insanely expensive', we just have a system where some portion of that insanity is 'hidden' by employers participating in the transaction (much like FICA tax 50/50 split).
I did some work for a small insurance broker - about 15 employees. They provided health insurance for all employees. They invited me to a few company meetings, and the owners asked what people thought the cost of the insurance was, per month, per person. Lots of $100 and $150/month guesses. I said '$600'. Someone laughed, and the owner said "you're close - it's $586". The room went silent. It was going to be going up to, IIRC, something like $630/month, and he was preparing people for "hey, we're going to cover this, but we're probably not going to be able to do much else, or may have to cut back some minor reimbursement stuff."
Keep in mind that $700 a month private personal health insurance isn't going to cover any of your week to week/month to month expenses. You'll end up with a $10k deductible or higher
And then there are denied claims and out of network costs.
People often think of their insurance as good (or will respond so on surveys), until they actually call upon it and it evaporates, leaving them with multiple hundred-thousand-dollar bills related to the treatment of cancer.
Neither is most "employer-provided" insurance. A few folks have 'gold-plated' plans where they are hardly out of pocket for anything, but most people with health insurance plans, of any stripe, still have moderately sized deductibles, on top of paying a portion towards the monthly premium anyway.
Well, in all fairness, my and my wife's health care in the USA has been WAY better than it was in Japan. It costs like 20x as much, though. That's my theory as to why nobody in power wants to actually fix the US system. Maybe the system really is the best if you have unlimited money and unlimited tolerance for bureaucracy
Yes, it depends on work and what type you are. I've talked with lots of older colleagues that dread retirement, mostly because they enjoy work and they also enjoy the people they work with.
Some people will do just fine with their hobbies and projects, others will have a hard time adapting - many even coming out of retirement, due to boredom. Really depends on the individual.
One thing I've heard a lot, from older colleagues, is that people tend to become mentally dull once they go into retirement - at least on the skills they used daily at work.
You need to be pretty disciplined and motivated to maintain your skills at a professional level, once there's no hurry or pressure to deliver anything. Days turn into weeks, weeks into months, months into years - before you know it, you've spent a couple of years of your retirement just chilling around.
