> people don't want to be exposed to content that dehumanizes them, argues for their extermination
The left does this on Reddit/Twitter constantly towards right wing people and no one bats an eye. It's like maybe those in power are extremely biased towards the left.
I don't think that there's an equivalency between the advocacy for the genocide of black people, Jews, trans people, etc and opposing someone for their political beliefs.
Perhaps there'd be more legitimacy in a comparison to the vitriol on the left against billionaires and cops, but these are positions of power, not identity groups one is born into. All revolutionaries of all political persuasions will oppose those in positions of power currently.
> Yes there are a very small minority of people who do call for this
I agree with you. We are talking about how targeted groups will demand moderation to avoid persistent targeted harassment from a comparatively small number of people.
Conservatives are also often targets of hate. There are black, Jewish, gay, and trans conservatives who are also targeted not for the content of their politics, but due to attributes they were born with and cannot change. I can always set aside my politics, but one cannot set aside their race, gender identity or ethnic group.
Since the discussion is the sociological cause, the fact that the group doing the harassing is small, it will nearly always be banned by the larger majority that is targeted.
> Conservatives are also often targets of hate. There are black, Jewish, gay, and trans conservatives who are also targeted not for the content of their politics, but due to attributes they were born with and cannot change. I can always set aside my politics, but one cannot set aside their race, gender identity or ethnic group.
I agree. One thing to note though is it's one thing to remove bad law such as outlawing homosexuality as such and it's another to try to force everyone to promote you're life style. Harassment is bad. One problem is that there is no agreed to standard of harassment. So a lot of the left don't like that as a Catholic I will not promote or think that a homosexual lifestyle is something positive. This is not harassment nor is them disliking Catholics and saying mean things about our people and positions.
I think the best comparison for gay marriage is interracial marriage. If you are okay with interracial marriage legally, but personally oppose it, people will have a negative reaction to that sentiment. Likewise, people will have a negative reaction to your personal opposition to gay marriage in a similar way to the way they'd be disgusted by one's opposition to interracial marriage, no one is entitled to having their views accepted.
I think how people react to your positions is a very different discussion than the sociological and political questions we've discussed so far though.
Im glad someone is standing up to protect those poor billionaires and racist cops. Because maybe they get hurt when they read someone online saying they actively hurt the world by existing! And as we all know, being a billionaire with hurt feeling is just as worse as being murdered by racist cops, or dying because a billionaire didn't want to pay taxes so he lobbied to lower taxes, causing public services to disappear!
> This is a misdirection. Yes there are a very small minority of people who do call for this but it is what I'm talk about is simple opposition to others political beliefs. If I say that there are only two sexes and you cannot change your sex, I would be banned from many of the most popular subreddits. This is not advocating for the genocide of trans people. It's a scientific and political position.
A comparison can be made to other positions which may be a tad extreme here, but I think it's arguably appropriate. If someone advocated for climate change denialism on any public forum, they'd be laughed out of the metaphorical room. However, even if attempts are made to persuade said people with logical arguments, often they will continue to hold such beliefs to the same strength or even stronger than before.
Is it appropriate to silence people for holding specific views? No. But ultimately some compromise has to be made. A decent solution may be the use of a debate section, but I'm sure better ones exist.
> If someone advocated for climate change denialism on any public forum, they'd be laughed out of the metaphorical room
The problem is that no one online has any sense of nuance. Any questioning of the absolute worst prediction, or disagreement about public policy regarding it are looked down on as climate change denialism.
They seem to be specifically calling out the far right, not just conservatives. Far right is synonymous with for example, calls for an ethnostate that would exclude certain people.
Firstly, no, that position isn't 'scientific'. The scientific portion of the equation comes from the separation of gender and sex along with the psychological and sociological expectations of how someone conforms to a given gender role. I see this often that people take a disingenuous stance and then claim it's 'scientific' when its anything but.
Secondly, that argument has a lot of baggage associated with it. Transgender people get banned from the military because they 'cannot change their sex' or 'transgender people lose their jobs because they don't conform'. It's an argument around taking away the rights of a certain group of people and it shouldn't be surprising that people don't want to associate with that.
Look, I agree. I shouldn't be forced to do something for someone who makes me uncomfortable, even if it's something that they can't change, and which doesn't materially impact me in any way.
But at the same time, do you not see how this reinforces existing disparities in opportunity and social acceptance? If you have a better solution than mandating that businesses don't discriminate, I'm all ears. However, if you simply allow businesses to freely discriminate, then the world will only become more unfair over time.
I mean, now we've established why you would end up getting banned from many subreddits. You're essentially arguing to treat one group of citizens as second-class citizens because you don't like them. A lot of things aren't 'rights' until they're codified in law, but that doesn't mean people don't deserve to be treated equally with others.
I would never agree to take away rights from a Catholic, but it's disappointing to see a Catholic argue to take away rights from someone else using their faith as a bludgeon. Especially when I know many Catholics whom treat gay people the same as everyone else.
What exactly do you mean by "scientific position"? The term seems, to me, an absurdity.
> Doesn't make it okay.
Putting aside any actual wrongdoing, attacking those with privilege is infinitely better than attacking those without: the former have the resources to defend themselves; the latter do not.
> In the same way your stance on climate change is a scientific position regardless if your stance is correct or not.
Can you please just give the definition of "scientific position" that you are using?
Do you mean an assertion regarding reality? Because I think everyone agrees on the reality. The question of what the words "sex" and "gender" constitute is not a question of reality: it is a question of social and legal constructs.
> It's still an evil to unjustly attack someone even if to different degrees.
I love how you explicitly avoided the use of the word gender and don't actually address that you're uncomfortable that some people don't fit into the social boxes of male and female.
As for vitriol against billionaires and cops, taking a stand against people abusing power is as American as the Boston tea party. If you're advocating for people to shut up and take the abuse you sound pretty authoritarian to me. Is it that hard to look at the situation and say "give me liberty or give me death" applies to poor people and black people too?
> If you're advocating for people to shut up and take the abuse you sound pretty authoritarian to me.
No I never said that nor do I think it. There are definite problems with some cops and there are many instances of gross abuse. I have no problem with billionaires.
Approximately no-one on reddit or twitter is saying that straight people shouldn't be allowed marry. Plenty of people on both are saying that I shouldn't be, though. To take just one example.
"People should be marginalised, and made second class citizens, and marginalised people should be kept marginalised" is a pretty common theme on the far right. It is rare on the far left; not that it's non-existent, but there just aren't that many sincere Stalinists or similar left.
What dehumanising content are you seeing from the left? I mean, if it's just "the other side are bad people" stuff, well, everyone does that. The "these classes of people should be socially and politically suppressed" stuff is overwhelmingly from one side, though.
> People should be marginalised, and made second class citizens, and marginalised people should be kept marginalised" is a pretty common theme on the far right.
What? Not that there is no one with this view but it is an extreme minority. Same with people calling for the killing of all cops on the left, very small minority.
No it's not. For example, being against gay marriage is still a fairly mainstream social conservative position; opposition in total is around 35% across the US[1]. You don't hear much about it anymore because it's viewed as politically infeasible even within those circles, but if they could do it they absolutely would.
Just look at the recent supreme court ruling that made it illegal to fire people based on you being gay or transgendered. Tons of conservatives shot back on that one. I don't know how you can look at a viewpoint like, "yes, employers should be allowed to fire you for merely being gay" and think that that doesn't mean they want to keep marginalised people marginalised.
You should reflect on your privilege if you think it's only a small minority holding views that people that aren't straight white males are worth less.
An extreme minority explicitly hold the view publicly, but what's not an extreme minority are people who take the long road around saying it and people who have kneejerk reactions to any proposed changes to the status quo.
Mike Pence is one example and he's the VP. Calling it an 'extreme minority' when there are multiple examples of high-level politicians holding views like that seems disingenuous.
As far as I can tell, there are no politicians or indeed anyone with significant power calling for the killing of all cops.
Unless Nancy Pelosi or someone starts retweeting videos demanding the liquidation of the kulak class, you'll forgive me if I don't take your claims of 'extreme minority on both sides' all that seriously.
The left does this on Reddit/Twitter constantly towards right wing people and no one bats an eye. It's like maybe those in power are extremely biased towards the left.