>>> I'm not advocating any bargaining methods. I'm advocating not being desperate, figuring out what your goals are, and I shared some stories that people apparently liked a lot. <<<
We're all desperate in some way or another.
>>>But as soon as you need money – and people know – you’re hosed<<<
What I understood from your post was that you're essentially trying to engage in subterfuge making sure that the other person doesn't know your weaknesses. So, that you can reach your goals.
That just makes me... sad.
The thing is that yes they are some very, very nasty people out there and no you don't need to advertise how desperate you are, but this playing coy just feels fake to me. This isn't a reflection upon you or casting any judgement on your moral character, but I think that I wouldn't have the stomach to do something like this.
It might sound crazy, but if I have to engage in a game to show strength in order to make someone else treat me like an equal. Then perhaps I don't want to be his equal?
>>>Indeed, he is. Yes. But in the flunky capacity. This guy didn’t see me as a peer of his, apparently, and he doesn’t treat people underneath him very well.<<<
Yes, in some practical scenarios you have to do it, and to be honest I do a variation of this everyday, but that doesn't mean I create a repetoire of tactics and add this long list of techniques to manipulate with another list on how to avoid being manipulated in order to get what I want.
I just don't want my life to amount to that, and well professionally I would rather not engage in something like that. If I meet someone like that then I would rather keep my distance than have a relationship. If they want the product. Sure buy it, but I won't play this game.
What I'm trying to say is that if I am desperate for money. Then I'm desperate for money. I won't turn that down, just to show someone that I'm worthy of something more. If I am then I'll get there. If not then I'll work harder to get there.
I think this was what Jacques was trying to convey. People pay for how good you are. Not how good at poker you are. As that is really short term. Unless you have that genuine thing (in the case of the model a brand) no matter how you pitch it the money will evaporate. That's the most important piece of the puzzle in my opinion. Generating value.
That aside, I just want to say that this is not an invitation for someone to screw me over. I won't play such games with them, but neither am I a fool.
>It might sound crazy, but if I have to engage in a game to show strength in order to make someone else treat me like an equal. Then perhaps I don't want to be his equal?
Frankly, that's a terrible strategy. We're mammals with mammal brains and mammal signaling, and if you're going to choose to live in denial of that then you're handicapping yourself. I'm not advocating being an asshole, which is how you'll probably read that, but signaling desperation is going to make you less desirable in just about every capacity - not just in the working world but also when dating and even with friends.
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't have a strategy and neither do I want to have a strategy.
Yes, I'm vulnerable. Yes, it exposes all of my flaws, but at least what you see is what you get. At least, when I have a relationship I know it's genuine and based on a solid foundation instead of grounded to pretense under the garb of strategy.
I just don't want to make it complicated as some relationships I deal with anyway. It took me a while to learn this, but it was worth the effort and the pain.
You do have a strategy. Now that you have acknowledged the concept, you can't not have one. Your strategy in this case is (explicitly) not to engage in conscious strategizing and (implicitly) to ignore social norms which don't match your aesthetics (which, by the way, are probably not some fundamental truth of the universe or even of your genes, but rather a function of the memes you were exposed to during your formative period).
I also think you're making the mistake of assuming that consciously thinking about human interaction makes it impossible to have honest, open, "real" relationships. I assure you that isn't the case. Two separate times in my life I've had reasonably large circles of friends in which we were more open with each other than I suspect most people ever are with anyone (and one of those times is right now). I'd even go so far as to argue that active introspection and learning about human nature enables one to have more open and meaningful relationships.
The problem with the argument that by not making a choice, you're still making a choice is that it's a circle. I know you're right, but the thing is that the english language or any natural language wasn't built for such deep probing of concepts. The things we're talking about disintegrate under the microscope and what we get is philosophy.
I think you're right about active introspection.
I have done a lot of soul searching too and I still continue to do, but the point I was trying to convey is that this (read: applying game theory to everything) really isn't what life is all about. There are some things that should be broken apart and others that should be felt. I just think this is one of them.
Sebastian's point was that professional style -- here, his choices about what he will do, and for what -- communicates values and goals and self-perception. That information helps others self-select how they want to work with him.
Jacques writes "Faking success isn't going to make you successful". Well, obviously, a style based on misperception won't work, and one based on misrepresentation won't last. But that doesn't mean an accurate and honest style won't help you find whatever you regard as success.
>>> I'm not advocating any bargaining methods. I'm advocating not being desperate, figuring out what your goals are, and I shared some stories that people apparently liked a lot. <<<
We're all desperate in some way or another.
>>>But as soon as you need money – and people know – you’re hosed<<<
What I understood from your post was that you're essentially trying to engage in subterfuge making sure that the other person doesn't know your weaknesses. So, that you can reach your goals.
That just makes me... sad.
The thing is that yes they are some very, very nasty people out there and no you don't need to advertise how desperate you are, but this playing coy just feels fake to me. This isn't a reflection upon you or casting any judgement on your moral character, but I think that I wouldn't have the stomach to do something like this.
It might sound crazy, but if I have to engage in a game to show strength in order to make someone else treat me like an equal. Then perhaps I don't want to be his equal?
>>>Indeed, he is. Yes. But in the flunky capacity. This guy didn’t see me as a peer of his, apparently, and he doesn’t treat people underneath him very well.<<<
Yes, in some practical scenarios you have to do it, and to be honest I do a variation of this everyday, but that doesn't mean I create a repetoire of tactics and add this long list of techniques to manipulate with another list on how to avoid being manipulated in order to get what I want.
I just don't want my life to amount to that, and well professionally I would rather not engage in something like that. If I meet someone like that then I would rather keep my distance than have a relationship. If they want the product. Sure buy it, but I won't play this game.
What I'm trying to say is that if I am desperate for money. Then I'm desperate for money. I won't turn that down, just to show someone that I'm worthy of something more. If I am then I'll get there. If not then I'll work harder to get there.
I think this was what Jacques was trying to convey. People pay for how good you are. Not how good at poker you are. As that is really short term. Unless you have that genuine thing (in the case of the model a brand) no matter how you pitch it the money will evaporate. That's the most important piece of the puzzle in my opinion. Generating value.
That aside, I just want to say that this is not an invitation for someone to screw me over. I won't play such games with them, but neither am I a fool.