On: Python now uses Mercurial

[bluesnowmonkey]

You know, comments like that disparage by implication anyone who finds value in PHP or SVN. That's a big chunk of the development community. It tears people apart rather than bringing them together. Maybe you should redirect your energy from snark and criticism toward something more constructive.

[burgerbrain → bluesnowmonkey]

You can simultaneously find value in something, and have a sense of humour about that something's shortcomings. Learning to laugh at ourselves is probably the greatest thing humanity could do to further peace and happiness.

[bluesnowmonkey → burgerbrain]

That's a fair point, when it applies. But I perceive this joke as coming more often from a sense of superiority and an emotionally ill-conceived attempt to improve others by insulting them.

[burgerbrain → bluesnowmonkey]

Or perhaps it comes out of pent up frustration at having to use them myself in work environments ;)

[jrockway → bluesnowmonkey]

You know, comments like that disparage by implication anyone who finds value in PHP or SVN.

Maybe if we disparage them enough they'll switch to a real programming language and version control tool.

[X-Istence → jrockway]

Why is PHP not a "real" programming language? Why is subversion not a "real" version control tool?

Yes, I've programmed in PHP and know it has some downsides, and that it has some big warts that are ugly, but it is a real programming language. Real projects are built with PHP.

Now I understand the frustration with Subversion, but it still is a version control system that is used in the real world. Would I love it if everyone decided to move away from SVN and onto something more capable like Git or Mercurial, yes, but that doesn't mean we have to belittle people who are using those tools.

[japherwocky → X-Istence]

PHP is the Walmart of languages, everyone uses it because everyone uses it, but nobody really has anything _good_ to say about it.

[chris_j → japherwocky]

I wasn't going to jump into this discussion but that isn't very fair. I don't use PHP myself and am not a fan of it but here are some reasons why I think it is popular:

1) It's very easy to get started with, even if you're not a great programmer (or even if you have never programmed before). Just start with pure HTML and then add a few <?php> tags. 2) Lots of PHP hosting available, much of it free. 3) Loads of frameworks and libraries available.

I'm sure a PHP fan could come up with a few more.

[japherwocky → chris_j]

2 and 3 are not really advantages for PHP, as the same can be said for most any language.

I think #1 is the big reason that PHP is as popular as it is, but that "feature" has a funny smell among programmers who don't like to mix languages.

[nir → jrockway]

If "real programming language" advocates spent more time creating equivalient/better alternatives to projects like Drupal or Wordpress in their preferred environments, they'd advance their goals much more than any HN/Proggit comment could.

[statictype → jrockway]

Real programming language as in a language that powers a large chunk of the most visited web sites on the internet?

I don't do any PHP myself and my few forays into it didn't leave me impressed but I don't see how you can disparage it as not a "real language".

[jarin → jrockway]

PHP developers can probably take comfort in the fact that much like Java, Perl, C, Snooki, and others, even though PHP is long past its "sexy" stage, it's well into its "many billion-dollar companies are built on this" stage.

SVN users, well, they probably just don't know any better. :)

[bonch → bluesnowmonkey]

Oh, geez. Lighten up.