At the risk of being confrontational, I have to question whether you have ever had a low-paying job in the USA or if you have even taken the time to look at the typical "benefits" and work requirements attached to such jobs. The absolute and unquestionable reality for millions of workers in the USA (food industry, customer service, transportation, and many others) is that they have zero paid sick leave and are also subject to work requirements that allow for their termination with little to no warning for any form of work absence. It follows logically that there is a great deal of people who work while sick and are afraid of missing work for any reason - they have minimal rights, live paycheck to paycheck, can barely afford healthcare, and have almost zero job security.
This is the environment that rabidly pro-business regulation and the erosion of worker protections has created; assertions that the hideously benighted situation of low-paid workers in the USA will magically "self-resolve" without strong legislation go against the entire history of the labor rights movement and basic common sense.
>The absolute and unquestionable reality for millions of workers in the USA (food industry, customer service, transportation, and many others) is that they have zero paid sick leave and are also subject to work requirements
I don't doubt that - but I'm asking for numbers because I also know that some proportion of supervisors even in shitty jobs are understanding enough to offer sick days. And just as in this current system some people are understanding enough to give people time off, under legislation there will also be some proportion of people who ostensibly are doing nothing illegal but indirectly pressure employees not to take time off - the same way people often accumulate vacation time from the same pressures!
That's why I'm legitimately asking for numbers. Because neither case is going to be black or white. Laws are hard do undo and frequently have unintended consequences. Some things are better solved through social reform, if they are necessary at all.
It's like the oft quoted idea that millions of Americans are struggling working multiple jobs to make ends meet and this requires some form of price floor - but if you look at official BLS reports, less than a couple percent (can't remember exactly) are actually in this state. For decisions which affect millions of people, numbers are everything.
The idea that the number of employers who might pressure their employees into not using legally-enshrined sick leave could be comparable to the number of employers who, through the goodness of their hearts, currently offer sick leave to their low-wage employees in the absence of a requirement to do so doesn't hold water. Furthermore, the (quite real) threat that employers will attempt to violate the spirit of a worker protection law should not be justification for society to not implement such laws. History clearly shows us that the goal of improving the lives of American citizens cannot rely upon charitable behavior from corporations.
I agree that neither case may be black or white; however, one is dark, dark gray and the other is eggshell.
Research how many states have pushed hard to break up unions of nearly every type. Wisconsin's governor made the news repeatedly pulling through "right to work" laws (I don't know details but I was shocked at how little pushback I heard about at all).
Here in IL and IA we've been "right to work" for a good while. Most purposefully misleading euphemism ever.
I'd vote for anyone who had a reasonable shot at forcing those laws to be rescinded and basic worker termination protection restored.
> Wisconsin's governor made the news repeatedly pulling through "right to work" laws (I don't know details but I was shocked at how little pushback I heard about at all).
Wisconsinite here: We really love to screw ourselves over. It's our state pastime. Scott Walker went to blue collar neighborhoods and said "I'm going to take away your right to organized negotiation!" and we said "Yes, I LOVE that!" We put his signs in our yards. Then as a joke we voted to remove, and then changed our minds.
When our some of our legislatures refused to go to work because some silly people stood outside the capital with signs, we decided to unelect the ones that stayed in the capital throughout the protests, and reward the ones that left the state entirely. We just love it :)
There's another side to that argument ("the right to make it damn hard to get hired") but maybe this thread isn't the place for meta social/political discussions.
The immediate problem needs the best fix possible and I do have to say the response from the federal government so far has been underwhelming at best.
I think asking vague questions and mouthing hazy principles is a very bad response to a specific, acute situation. If you want to argue against sick leave, fine, take a swing at it. But please do it with specifics and enough data that you have an argument worth taking seriously.
There are places where people are pressured to work while sick? Not because they can’t afford to be home, but due to pressure from peers and/or management?
Where is that? And why? A five year old would realize that sick people hurt productivity by infecting others?
How about a startup, for starters? Where people spend years burning themselves out?
How about when you have a big project coming up for a client and your team is depending on your contributions?
I'm not advocating for this sort of pressure, but I'm saying that even a law requiring paid sick leave is not going to guarantee that people go home when they're sick. Even in low paying jobs, managers still have to cover shifts. There's always pressure to work. Laws aren't magic.
Both of those are examples where it’s typically possible to work from home while ill. That I realize can be a pressure everywhere. There’s a difference between being pressured to work and being pressured to come to work.
It’s the second that is counterproductive.
If it’s the deadline day and you can afford three people to be off next week so long as the one sick person comes in this week, then it’s a conscious tradeoff at least. But in general it’s short sighted and counterproductive, not to mention rude to coworkers.
What proportion in countries with guaranteed sick leave is pressured into coming to work anyway by social stigma?
Not everything needs to be legislated. Especially not at a federal level.