So docker runs a bunch of system services but abstracts them away...
And kubernetes runs docker but abstracts that away...
and rancher runs kubernetes but abstracts that away..
Should I just wait a year for something that lets me use rancher without knowing anything about it?
The problem of infrastructure is that low level interfaces are always consumed by higher-level interfaces.
And if you want to run a process, but you want to distribute the apps and run them as process containers, and you want to run them in an automatically configurable cluster of COTS computers communicating through a virtual private network...
Don't you understand where and why are there abstractions?
If anything, having people naively complain about how things are layered and abstracted is a testament of the huge success of the whole teck stack, because complainers formed such a simple mental model of how to distribute, configure, run, and operate collections of heterogeneous services communicating through a virtual network that they simply have no idea of the challenge of implementing a workable system that does half of this.
But with docker+kubernetes it only takes a click, so it must be trivial right?
Why is it amusing? Do you find the amount of abstraction between the CPU and a browser similarly amusing? That judgement seems arbitrary. The reason why an abstraction is created is because it's sometimes helpful to have complexity managed automatically if full control of the complexity is not necessary for your needs, your reaction seems to suggest "kubernetes doesn't need to be so complex", but I am not sure if you really believe that.
I can understand the "kubernetes may not be the best engineering decision for your needs" argument, but that's a different argument from kubernetes is too complex.
This comment chain started with:
"Having been at a company that was starting to move things to Kubernetes, when it had absolutely no reason to, I can say that it was being done because: 1) the developers wanted to be able to say they knew how to use Kubernetes... "
Someone responded by saying
"For those companies i recommend rancher... It's kubernetes under the hood but a lot is stuff is abstracted away.."
So if you dont need Kubernetes, and are just using it to learn Kubernetes, you should throw an additional tool on top of Kubernetes, that abstracts away Kubernetes?
I said the judgement is arbitrary, not the amusement.
> Some abstractions are necessary. Some aren't.
It just seems bizarre to me that you can suggest that the abstraction is unnecessary when you also claim to have never used the tool. What makes you think it's unnecessary?
1. I didn't judge anything. I said I was amused. You inferred judgement.
2. I didn't say it wasn't necessary. The poster of the parent comment did. I didn't work there, I don't know what was necessary. But it's safe to say, if you don't need Kubernetes (which the parent poster said, not me), then you don't need something to abstract Kubernetes (Rancher)...
And also, if I did know the environment, and the environment was incredibly simple, I don't think it's necessary for me to have Kubernetes experience to determine that it is not necessary... Sometimes a couple of VMs in different zones behind a load balancer is just fine...
And if you don't agree, you probably also think a static landing page requires React to be "done properly." How's that for inferring things you didn't say? I've never used React either, I guess I'll never know if I really need it for that landing page!
I'm also a fan of Rancher. Especially the newer versions. It significantly simplifies the process of spawning up and managing a Kubernetes cluster.
I do think that Kubernetes is overkill if you just want to spawn a couple of server instances.
But if you want to build a complex system which scales and you happen to have experienced developers on the team who understand how to build scalable systems and who have experience with Kubernetes then you'd be foolish not to use K8s IMO.
That said, having that specific talent and experience on the team is critical or else you're just wasting your time and money with K8s - And that talent is very hard to find.
There is no point building some complex architecture for Kubernetes if that architecture is not designed to scale linearly from the ground up.
Kubernetes can allow you to operate highly scalable systems easily and elegantly, but simply using Kubernetes doesn't itself guarantee in any way that your systems will be scalable and will benefit from K8s at all (aside from pretty UI).
Very few people can build systems that scale and also meet business requirements.
