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The guarantee is not the point. If anything is altered by censorship, like ability to get one's message in front of people, it is an issue.

Whether your personal ideology considers that problematic has no bearing on the fact that change has occurred.




The point is, you don't have a right to get your message in front of people. You only have a right to speak your message. You can speak your message in the middle of the street, but the government is under no obligation to force people to stop on the street and listen to your message. Because other people have the right to ignore you. That right to ignore and not associate with you is also part of free speech and free expression. There really are no further guarantees to free speech and expression other than being able to speak and express.


As I said earlier:

> This difference seems so obvious to me, I suspect you may only have a limited subset of "issues" in mind, such as the 1st amendment.

Free speech seems like an unlikely candidate for culture war status (and the ensuing cognitive behaviors), but it seems unmistakable.


But the 1st, and more broadly, the Constitution, is the only issue that does matter. That’s what you don’t seem to be getting. No one cares if you can’t get an audience. But we care very deeply that the government not be able to constrict your right to speak.


> But the 1st, and more broadly, the Constitution, is the only issue that does matter.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/matter

Under the Verb definition, I see no reference to the Constitution.

Also, in places where the Constitution does not apply, does nothing matter?

Perhaps you and I have different meanings in mind for the word matter?

> No one cares if you can’t get an audience.

a) No one?

b) How did you come to know the feelings of all people?


>Also, in places where the Constitution does not apply, does nothing matter?

You're free to move to places where the Constitution does not apply if you feel that will work out better for you. Here in the US, we take the Constitution seriously enough that a very large number of us would readily kill in its defense.

Yes. No one. If you can't get an audience, that means no one cares about your content. The only other option is that you have misrepresented your argument, and you, in fact, can get an audience. In which case there is no problem because you have no problem finding your audience.

Look man, there's an audience for rap. There's an audience for country. There's even an audience for heavy metal. But don't try to pawn that crap off on people who don't want to hear it. They have a right to turn the station, and the government must never constrict that right because "heavy metal can't find an audience".


> If you can't get an audience, that means no one cares about your content.

If someone has 5000 followers on Twitter, is then banned, and then sets up his own platform, do you actually believe one can logically conclude that those people not finding him on the new platform is because they all simultaneously became uninterested in his content?

It fascinates me how certain topics seem to be able to disable the logical capabilities of even HN folks. Perhaps I should add this notion to the 2020 Predictions thread, I can't imagine others aren't going to start noticing this phenomenon eventually.

> Look man, there's an audience for rap. There's an audience for country. There's even an audience for heavy metal. But don't try to pawn that crap off on people who don't want to hear it. They have a right to turn the station, and the government must never constrict that right because "heavy metal can't find an audience".

I would love to know if you are able to realize that this is a distinctly different situation.


Only 'cos it's used as a stalking horse for people whose real goal is race extermination.


I don't think I understand, could you expand your idea further?




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