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... and this is why pension schemes should be managed by the government or at least tightly regulated.

Just imagine GE going bankrupt - who's gonna pay the pension, then? The government in a bailout or what?




Do people not understand this is how pensions work.

If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension.

I find it incredibly risky to rely on pensions. I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.


> If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corpo...


https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s...

It's mostly for show, and at the end of the day, if the pensioners have enough political clout (like those of GM in 2008/2009), then they will get bailed out for real by Congress.


>I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.

They might not be aware that automation has done away with the role of pension fund managers. In the old days, you couldn't just go out and buy a total stock market or bond market ETF. Nowadays, you don't even have to think about asset allocation with target date funds. And since all investments are going towards the fewer and fewer remaining companies, a bailout for one is a bailout for all.


Why do you think that?

httpss://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation


PBGC only insures some part of a pension, has many exclusions, and is definitely not "funded" enough itself to protect against the number of pension funds that are running out of funds.

https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s...


Note that certain non-profits are not obligated to be federally insured. The most notable example of this is hospital staff, as a significant number of hospitals are run by religious organizations.


In Germany, the pension (Rentenversicherung) follows you during your employment life, the mandatory contributions are automatically paid by your employer and it does not matter if the employer goes belly-up at some time between now and your eventual death.

The idea that someone could lose their retirement and depend on social security or nothing at all simply because the company one has dedicated his life to goes bankrupt is just... horrible.


It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US.

Unless one happens to work for a religious organization, in which case, yes, I agree, we should remove the religious exemption from needing to contribute to the common insurance fund for defined benefit plans.


> It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US.

What exactly about this idea is horrible? Of course it sounds like socialism but what's the concrete things that are "bad"?


You asserted that people in the US can lose their pensions if the company goes out of business. This isn’t true. If it were true, that would be horrible.

There’s a government supported backstop for pension funds if the company goes out of business.


What is the difference between Rentenversicherung and Social Security? They sound like the same thing.


Leaving aside government guarantees or other forms of pension insurance that may or may not be effective...

>If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension.

It depends. My pension has gone through a couple of different acquisitions but it still exists.


Employees are excited about non-cash benefits because they were told by their employers that they are worth getting excited about.

Employers are excited about non-cash benefits because it cuts risk by reducing their overall obligation to their employees.


The pension is separate to the company is it not, or is the US more lax.

In the UK pensions are independent of the company due mostly to some scandals in the past Robert Maxwell for example.


At least in the US, what you describe is reality. Pensions are regulated heavily (you may disagree with the few legal flexibilities though).

And they are at least partially insured:

https://www.pbgc.gov/

Maybe the PBGC will go under? Who knows.


Non taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions are regulated.

Taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions have zero regulation. Because they have the power to tax.

And there is a bill currently worming it's way through congress to bailout PBGC (although they don't say it directly):

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr397

https://burypensions.wordpress.com/2019/01/09/butch-lewis-ac...


In a bankruptcy proceeding, the courts try to balance the needs of retirement benefits along with the company's creditors. GE has enormous assets so it's not a safe assumption that the pension obligation just disappears in a bankruptcy.


Just wait until your own trusty government is running low on funds...

Ultimately however you have to trust some third party - to some degree - not to waste or misuse your money.




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