I was in a massively busy market street in Dotonbori, Osaka, at night.
A police whistle shrieked, and I turned and saw a police officer absolutely booking it through the crowd, shoving through people, shouting at some perpetrator.
My American-cultured brain thought, "This is it, someone's about to die." It seriously freaked me out.
I watched, and he caught up to... a guy on a bike. It was a no-biking zone. He gave the guy a ticket.
Dude I recently had a run-in with the police over a bicycle, dang! It was an abandoned bike that had been in a field for several days and I was watching it rust to bits as I was walking my dog
So I did what any self-respecting Canadian would do, I decided to be a hero.. I wheeled it home and showed it to my wife she says 'you better do something with it' so a day passes and we show it to my mother in law and she decides to call the local police to come get it
Lo and behold they show up but right away the guy starts going at me 'why did you take another person's property?' treating me like a criminal i.e. guilty until proven innocent. He makes me sit in the back of his car, separates me from my mother in law, asks for my identification, takes my passport, my employment, the works
They even called the detective squad and three guys roll up in a van
It was some kind of interrogation, I felt like Otto Warmbier. He asked every question under the sun, apparently he thought my mother in law was calling to report me for stealing a bike and he explained that it was no different than a bloody knife or a stolen purse. I decided to take the comical side and laughed my ass off when he told me that. It was more about him saving face to his command at that point
I couldn't believe the ludicrous nature of the whole deal. My only saving grace was that I'm married to a Japanese national so that got me off the hook, along with an intervention by my father in law and the local member of city government who lives down the street, otherwise I may have gone missing and ended up deported for all I know
Bicycle crime is real dude and I can totally understand why asian people suffer from such glaring groupthink and disdain for helping anyone -- no good deed goes unpunished for real
As a fellow gaijin in Japan, you seem like you’ve learned nothing about living here. The whole tone of your story is so smug and obnoxious.
The reason that even minor crimes (stealing a bicycle) are taken seriously is that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of law. You should probably learn your lesson and leave things that aren’t yours alone. Furthermore, the fact that you think your political connections got you off the hook tells us everything we need to know about your exceptionalist outlook.
People like you make the police skeptical of foreigners like myself who bother to learn and play by the rules out of respect for our host country.
Your post sounds like some sort of Stockholm Syndrome manifestation. The other poster found a bicycle seemingly abandoned in a public place, and the police response quite correctly sounds ridiculous. That you so casually refer to yourselves as Gaijin -- which is a manifestation of Japan's incredible cultural insecurity and xenophobia -- should be indicting Japan, not somehow used to defend them. Gaijin or not [1], he has every right to have opinions about things.
Multiple detectives investigating a bicycle theft is absurd. This has positively nothing to do with the broken window theory, but instead is exactly what the article talks about which is an overstaffed police force with little to do.
And it doesn't have little to do because Japan is such a cultural gem. It has little to do because Japan is facing a population implosion as the population ages with few children. Youth and young adults are, unsurprisingly, responsible for most crime, and when you have few in that demographic crime drops. No surprise.
[1] It's interesting to think about this in the context of a Japanese person in, say, Canada. They meet with a ridiculous scenario with a ridiculous response, and when vocalizing to a coworker how ridiculous it is they are told that they are a smug foreigner and need to shut the hell up. That would be simply outrageous, and is the sort of thing the worst sort of racist would resort to.
For what it's worth, I wish I even had a single detective working my bicycle theft case. Hell, put an intern on the case just to make me feel like something might happen.
Right now, property crime reports just blatantly go into the void in US cities.
Yes, when I got my bike stolen - in broad daylight, in front of a public place - the response was pretty much "sucks to be you, good luck with the next one, we can take report if you want but don't expect anything happening because it never does".
I think you are post rationalizing. Places like Norway, where I live have far more chill police and would let smaller things slide. Yet Norway is about as safe as Japan.
Most difference between crime in Norway and Japan is more likely down to Norway having much larger immigrant population from poorer countries.
I think your attitude easily ends up excusing police states. Japanese justice system is highly questionable. Almost nobody ever gets acquitted in the justice system, and prison is rather harsh. Norway gets away with low crime despite (or because of) probably the worlds most liberal prison system.
Don't get me wrong. I admire a lot about Japan, but I think you easily fall into the trap of thinking that everything great about Japan is directly the result of something bad.
I would argue more important factor causing law crime in Japan is much the same as in Nordic countries. Low levels of inequality. How people are socialized. Stricter gun laws.
And let us not forget that the average age is high in Japan. Older people commit a lot less crime.
"Japan's official murder rate is widely believed to be significantly underreported"
in response to someone noting that Norway's murder rate is 2.5x Japan's murder rate.
None of the articles you linked to even mentions an elevated or misreported murder rate. Instead you linked to articles suggesting that sex crimes are underreported. Sex crimes are actually underreported in just about every industrialized country, US included.
Given that the official murder statistics are what they are, citation is still required
Japan polices itself so that the police generally don’t have to. I don’t know about Norway, so I won’t comment. I can tell you it’s easy to avoid trouble with the state in Japan. Your biggest worry is going to be an older person who enforces social norms, which is exactly what got GP here.
I looked very briefly at that study. It compares US cities to other US cities using data from 1990. I would be more interested in how the US stacks up against other countries that don't have to act within the limitations of the Second Amendment. More recent data would probably be valuable as well.
It is racist. It is making generalizations of people in an entire country based on old history. It would be like calling the US a country of literal cowboys.
>The reason that even minor crimes (stealing a bicycle) are taken seriously is that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of law.
I certainly don't feel bad throwing a wrapper on the ground if the whole ground is full of wrappers already. I wouldn't anymore anyway, but it's largely true - people feel worse about committing a crme when they know others don't or aren't doing it.
"The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes such as vandalism, public drinking, and fare evasion help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes."
I guess it's a valid approach - see broken window syndrome - but at the same time it's only something you can do if the police force has the luxury to respond to minor (possible) crimes. Second, it doesn't work in e.g. the US where many people are arrested, tried and jailed for small crimes, e.g. possession of marihuana. Is that a deterrent? Does it work to reduce the production, trade and consumption of drugs? Does it over time cause the prison population to reduce and prisons to close?
Correlation is not causation. Somewhere where there isn't for example a lot of police presence might have a lot of petty crime, but the inverse isn't true. Many authoritarian countries with completely corrupt legal systems enforce petty crimes harshly. If anything this tends to suggest an erosion of the rule of law, since the purpose of the rule of law is to weight different interests against each other with things like proportionality.
In Japan, it’s common to see politicians, business people, or celebrities lose their entire livelihood and reputation over crimes such as mistakes in accounting for business lunches amounting to a few hundred dollars, or possession of a few grams of pot. Likewise, even a hint of political favors or major financial shenanigans carry huge impact. There will be deep bowing, sincere tears, and deep, deep, lasting shaming and exile from professional circles. It’s what a culture that keeps shame alive looks like, and IMO it’s a lot healthier than places that let the rich walk free after being caught red-handed, while the poor get locked up for life or murdered by the state over trivial, non-violent crimes.
He saw an abandoned bike in a field and took it home to get rid of it. The police definitely overreacted, and you just showed by 'broken windows' policing has a whole problem with implicit bias as the police seemed pretty prejudiced for him being a foreigner even though no crime was actually committed.
Every bike in Japan needs to registered with the police. Also, there are very specific rules governing abandoned property. Just saying “well no one else was using it” isn’t proof of the absence of a crime.
It wasn't for him to decide if this bicycle was abandoned or not. When you live in Japan you learn very fast how the law works. You do not touch anything that is not yours under any circumstances. In situation described as above you do not take the bike. Instead you call the police and report that is has been abandoned. It's trivial, really. And yes, maybe police was a bit prejudice in this case. But statistics and practice shows that vast majority of Japanese would not take this bike and this I can confirm first hand. Overall I think it was a good lesson. No harm done to anyone but the OP will remember for the rest of his life that he should not touch what's not his.
> The reason that even minor crimes (stealing a bicycle) are taken seriously is that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of law.
Doesn't seem like the best argument, because that isn't necessarily how the rule of law works. Taking abandon property isn't necessarily theft, even using a non-abandoned bike isn't necessarily theft but something like "unlawful usage", and if you don't intend to keep the object it is even less theft. It many countries it isn't a "minor crime" to leaving an abandoned bike with the police, but simply what you are supposed to do. But apparently Tokyo has a big problem with abandoned bikes [0]. You sentiment mostly just seems to confirm OPs suggestion that people should know their place.
I get your sentiment though. As a foreigner, tying to live here and have normal, fulfilling relationships takes a metric ton of work. In my experience, there's a bit of an endowment effect, where the coping mechanisms and language successes we pick up through the years get tied into our personal identities.
I've certainly gotten my jimmies ruffled by Outrageous Gaijin TM on many occasions, but I feel like there's a lot of room for mutual growth and 切磋琢磨ing through those interactions.
To flip things on their head a bit, mutual understanding and cooperation are held as socially high ideals here. I think most Japanese would agree those are better than dropping harsh judgement.
Anyway, if you just made a careless post after a stressful day or something, then let me buy you a beer (or tea, if you prefer). My email is in my profile.
Why does taking someone's bike home make you a hero? You could have just tipped off the police that someone left their bike in the field. It really sounds like you thought you gained a free bike until your mother in law got involved.
Maybe there was a major misunderstanding somewhere.
In general, if at all possible, I think it's best to tell the police (or staff members of whatever facility you happen to be inside) when there's an object that does not belong.
My experiences with the Japanese police:
1. I once found a wallet and carried it all the way to a nearby police box. Had to fill out some forms but no problems.
2. Another time I found and captured a dog running around town and had the police come to fetch it. Again no problems.
3. Just today while renewing my driver's license, I had some time before the lecture started so I walked out of the classroom and searched for a vending machine. I probably looked like I was a bit lost, and a police officer asked me what was wrong.
- Anyway - The plural of anecdote isn't data but I've only had nice encounters with the Japanese police so far.
(1) was in Hadano (Kanagawa), (2) was in Matsue (Shimane), (3) was in Nagoya.
Thinking back I left out a couple encounters.
4. Asked the police box staff if they knew how to get to my hotel (this was before smartphones were common), they helped me (Tokyo)
5. Filed a lost item report (my wallet was stolen, in Japan!) (Tokyo). Didn't turn up (duh) but I think I needed a piece of paper to get back my teikiken on my Suica card.
6. Filed another lost "item" report (a dog I was taking care of ran off. Man, that was nerve-wrecking). They actually helped me look for the dog I think! (No relation with the dog incident in Matsue.) (Shounan region, Kanagawa prefecture)
7. I was cycling to work and it was raining. I was holding an umbrella in one hand and a police car passed by and they used their loudspeakers to tell me to close my umbrella (but didn't stop me or anything). This was in a rather rural area of a rural town (Matsue). I think this is a recently introduced law -- someone holding an umbrella while cycling bumped? crashed? into someone and actually killed them. :/
8. Apparently police box officers walk around the neighborhood ringing on every doorbell and asking if anything's been up lately. That happened in Nagoya a couple weeks ago. I liked it.
“Bicycle crime is real dude and I can totally understand why asian people suffer from such glaring groupthink and disdain for helping anyone -- no good deed goes unpunished for real”
Is it untrue? If reporting an abandoned bike might end with you as the prime suspect in an investigation who is going to report anything more serious like corruption or abuse?
I actually admire the fact that they take bicycle theft seriously there.
In my East London flat I look out on an otherwise secluded balcony where a certain gentleman stores an ever-changing selection of nice looking bikes. I suppose it's possible that he's a legitimate bicycle trader, but given the fact that it's a) a total crackhead flat, and b) he doesn't seem to treat these nice bikes with any respect, just dumping them in a heap, I'm 99% sure they're stolen. I'd report it if it wasn't totally pointless, because the London Police don't care about bike theft.
Yeah I wouldn't bother either. Bikes seem like the first thing to go to chaos once the police make it obvious that it isn't on the radar.
It's like an athlete in combat sports not hiding the fact that they are gassed. There has to be some attempt to guise the reality or the situation devolves even faster.
That's precisely what I mean my fellows
a) My smug tone is because I've lived here long enough to know the rules are off and I'm pretty much a kept animal, as well I mean that by the end of it one thing set off another and it got so far out of hand even our local political representative had to get woken up from his slumber to settle the matter. In North America the cops don't even handle this sort of thing let alone the detective squad
b) I used the expression 'decided to be a hero' because in these situations everyone will tell you 'don't be a hero' but I didn't want the bike to rust any more or risk getting taken away so I wheeled it up to do my duty as a 'citizen' i.e. take accountability for its safe return
c) Yes I did adopt the tone of villainy, it's hard to pass through people's sarcasm detectors but don't forget you're reading my words in your perception of my tone of voice and we're all one cosmic consciousness experiencing itself etc
d) Yes, my last snarky jab is necessary because in Asian countries everyone will tell you don't step out of line it's about the rule of law and don't stick your neck out even more than western countries because the police forces here have a real fetish for upholding the iron rule of law
e) don't start labelling me based one anecdote, come and have a beer with me first and see where I'm really coming from.. I've got even worse ones to share that make everyone in a prefecture a thousand kilometres away eye you badly --
> I didn't want the bike to rust any more or risk getting taken away so I wheeled it up to do my duty as a 'citizen' i.e. take accountability for its safe return
The normal thing to do in this case would have been to wheel it to the local kōban...
I've heard of cases where people don't help even in serious situations, like someone is bleeding on the road after an accident (not in Japan) and this is the reason why. Cops can easily ruin your day, even if you are genuinely helping
> I can totally understand why asian people suffer from such glaring groupthink and disdain for helping anyone -- no good deed goes unpunished for real
Imagine being this vilely racist while being married to an Asian person. I feel sorry for your wife.
Unfortunately, it is true -- especially in Eastern Asia.
I said that at the risk of being accused of having internalized racism as an Asian person, but the situation on the ground really does resemble what he said.
And furthermore, Japan is a country built on saving face, couldn't the officer assume best intentions or simply a thief trying to come clean and let me slide without giving me the danged third degree? I was even wearing a bowtie no joke!
Yes, it's true that's what one ought to do, but really, is it? I mean this from a humanist level, is it really beholden to us as a society to need the intervention of the police state for something as peer-to-peer as returning a lost bicycle? Who am I to judge I'm just a stranger in a strange land.
Back home in Toronto, we have this silly habit of picking people's lost clothing items and putting them up on fences and signposts in case they come back to retrieve them. Under these circumstances here it's safer to walk on by -- same goes with the bike in the generalized sense the burden of returning the bike gets far greater due to the simple fact that most people simply won't bother, hence the need for a gaijin hero to step in and set things to rights
It's not only Japan. For better or worse, just walking by, leaving things as they are and calling the police is a better way to go in most of Europe, too. Usually it's for the better.
Exactly. I've done it before (for fly tipping, auto parts, discarded home appliances). They will take care of it, eventually. Or someone else will grab the stuff. Either way, not really your problem. If you get the bike, just repaint it and keep it I guess.
I was in Japan for a month not long ago and one thing that stood out for me was police walking around with large wooden sticks. Many walked around with expandable police batons, casually fully expanded.
Back when the bosozoku were more active (even 2012 was interesting compared to now), there were certain main streets that had a near-constant police presence between midnight and 4am on Saturday nights. The police would use those big staffs to knock the bikers off of their rides sometimes.
I don't know where you're from but "casually fully expanded" sticks doesn't really sound so scary when police all have handguns, metal batons and tasers where I am.
Yep, in the UK the Police budgets are stretched so thin that pretty much nothing except for actual murders and violent attacks ever gets investigated. And I don't mean it in a "it will get investigated at some point" way - I truly believe that for example stealing a car in the UK(outside of London) right now is a crime without any consequence. All you're going to get from the Police is a case number so you can call your insurer, no one will ever look into it. And again, that's not really the police fault - it's the stupid austerity that has slashed the budgets so much that there are simply no investigative policemen left on the force except for the worst of crimes.
I kind of wonder about that, though. Japan has 198 police per 100000 citizens. The UK figure is 216 per 100000. And Tokyo and London both seem to have about the same number of police per capita working within their city limits.
How many more police would it take, I wonder, before London was considered as safe as Tokyo?
Well, that's the problem with getting averages though. London is relatively fine, there are issues but very broadly speaking there is enough officers there. The problems start outside - in Manchester/Leeds/Doncaster the numbers are so low that what I mentioned above happens daily. If it's "just" theft or burglary and no one is hurt forget about any investigation. Even if you have CCTV of it happening, the police just don't want it as no one would review it anyway.
Greater Manchester has a population of 2.8M, and a police force of 6237, meaning the number of police is 223 per 100000, which is higher than the UK average.
I think the real problem here is that the citizens of Japan police themselves, and the citizens of most western countries like the UK don't.
I remember a walking tour in Munich some years ago, the guide told us to watch for Munich police bc they were bored and looking for crimes to take on, given the lack of crimes.
No, please. I bought a "ticket" that wasn't actually a ticket (had to use the red box to "convert" it?) for a train and got an earful. Also walked into a Rewe with a bottle of water and the cashier was really displeased.
In the UK and some other EU countries, you'd just pay on the spot (either the fine or the ticket price). Some things aren't worth that much policing.
I suspect you bought a ticket that can be made active any time, so you could buy it in advance if you wanted. To make the ticket "active" you have to stamp it using the pillar thing with the automatic date stamp at the station. Common mistake, but understandable you got an earful because you might as well be pretending you didn't know how things worked and are actually just riding again and again using the same pretend-ticket.
Similar with bringing a bottle of a brand that the store sells into the store - how are they supposed to know if you brought it in or if you just took it in the store and opened it there on the way to the cash register? (which, by the way, is not super uncommon either and generally tolerated)
German police are not allowed to collect fines on the spot, it's a corruption prevention measure.
A police whistle shrieked, and I turned and saw a police officer absolutely booking it through the crowd, shoving through people, shouting at some perpetrator.
My American-cultured brain thought, "This is it, someone's about to die." It seriously freaked me out.
I watched, and he caught up to... a guy on a bike. It was a no-biking zone. He gave the guy a ticket.