I'm a co-founder of a little startup project that got accepted in the BizSpark program and I can say it has definitely been a benefit to us and will be to our users when we launch in late January. We're building a web app for a vertical in the attorney space, it's a rails app built completely on an open source stack.
Why do we need BizSpark? While we would like for our customers to use our web app exclusively, the reality is the majority of practices run Windows and Office. So we built Exchange and Outlook integration using the tools provided by BizSpark. If we hadn't had access to those tools we still would have built the product, but we wouldn't have Exchange and Outlook support at launch. The benifit for us; We built a product better suited for our customers. The benefit for MS: They have another product on the list of thousands that has custom support and integration with their office suite, their bread and butter.
Clearly the biggest benefit for us has been access to thousands in software we otherwise couldn't afford. But we will be looking at the opportunities to network with partners and investors through BizSpark when we're ready.
I see it as a win for us and an ever so tiny win (because of our small user base) for Microsoft.
What kind of conditions do they impose on you as a part of the program? Is there any stuff like "an app built using Bizspark that supports Microsoft office cannot also support OpenOffice / LibreOffice," or "your app can't be open-source?" Etc?
Is it just software, or do they provide any sort of assistance with doing the integration with their stuff?
I'm curious since I could see a use for Sharepoint integration and even Outlook / Office integration for some of what I'm working on, but I'd still be leery of the whole "it's a trap" thing with Microsoft.
It is basically an open invitation to use their tools where you see fit. Our web app is built on an open source stack. We are writing software to integrate with the Mac (few attorneys use Macs but its growing). There wasn't any weird limitation or requirements to write MS only applications, we couldn't find any catch.
There are a couple of ways to get support. First, you're basically getting premium MSDN account access, so you get a limited number of support requests, it gives you one-on-one access to their engineers to get technical help if you need it. Second, there is a general BizSpark contact. We haven't contacted them yet, I suspect its primarily for getting help with the parter & investor networking aspect of it.
As far as signing up, go for it! I'd encourage anyone that falls in their guidelines and wants to integrate with any piece of MS software to sign up. (Main guidelines: Your company or startup is less than 3 years old, privately owned, Less then $1M in revenue)
We don't have a formal way to offer assistance to startups looking to integrate with our software. That said, I'd love to talk to anybody who is interested doing integrations with Microsoft software.
"You attempted to reach www.microsoft.com, but the certificate that the server presented has been revoked by its issuer. This means that the security credentials the server presented absolutely should not be trusted. You may be communicating with an attacker. You should not proceed."
Odd. Are you getting the correct certificate? You should be getting a certificate with a fingerprint of: "ea 22 6c ac ce 3f 1c b3 47 d9 f7 8f 60 31 d3 ba 41 07 91 99"
You can use this command to double-check the certificate on your local (POSIX) machine or on a remote server:
So, there's this: http://store.microsoft.com - it's a site where you can buy Microsoft products online. Then there are several retail locations where you can go in-person to purchase Microsoft software and related hardware: https://store.microsoft.com/Locations
About the only condition is that your startup cannot simply be a hosting provider. Meaning, I'm selling IIS7 web hosting accounts with SQL Server available as a backend and free Exchange Email, and all that I'm using the Bizspark supplied software for is that generic hosting.
This is interesting - I'm assuming that by "Exchange Integration" you're talking about Calendaring, appointments, and so on yes? I don't get the connection between your use of Exchange and your client's use of Exchange.
Put another way - I'm imagining you have a "Add to Outlook" bit of functionality which makes perfect sense. But the format is quite open and it, after all, a text file. How does this jibe with your web offering and your need for Exchange?
The main reason I ask is that Exchange is (generally) seen as not necessary in a startup (company < 20 or so). Typically they'll use Google apps or another hosted service which will accept their domain (Live.com does this as well).
Can you detail more why you needed Exchange with a Web app?
We wrote a utility that will run on a customer's windows server that syncs data from our webapp to their local server. Some of that data is calendar events and it saves those directly to the customers exchange server. Granted not all of our customers will use this functionality, but enough will to make it worth writing.
Our software is for attorneys and many attorneys love outlook + exchange + blackberry server, even small offices.
I'm one of Loopt's co-founders. Loopt uses Microsoft's stack (the reasons why are off topic here), and was licensing Windows Server, SQL Server, and Visual Studio through the SPLA program before BizSpark was available. We joined BizSpark right when it launched.
BizSpark consists primarily of two things: (1) a one-on-one contact to provide advice, to arrange partnership opportunities (marketing, etc), and to provide introductions to the Microsoft product teams as needed; and (2) free software licenses (which you get to keep at the end of the program). Loopt has also received other benefits, like access to their compatibility labs, conference passes, etc.
With BizSpark, Microsoft is confident enough in the quality of their offering that there's no commitment. You chose to use as much or as little of what is offered as you want, and there is zero pressure. We make use of various open source technologies[1]. It's not a problem. Also, at the end of the program they offer an extremely generous graduation offer[2] with no financial obligation.
After that, Microsoft's volume licensing is reasonable[3], the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them.
[1] Ubuntu, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Ruby, Rails, etc.
[2] http://www.bizspark.com/Programs/Pages/GraduationOffer.aspx I can't discuss the details of Loopt's custom offer (we exceed the standard usage by a fair amount), but we'll be much better off after BizSpark than we were before. Microsoft has been very generous.
[4] Not that they aren't extensible if needed. Back before ASP.Net MVC and WCF (and before Thrift, Protocol Buffers, and Rails) we wrote a ton of our own custom web and RPC tooling. ASP.Net is actually really nice but gets a bad rap because of web forms (which you don't have to use, and have improved substantially in the latest release). IIS 7 rocks as a transport agnostic application server, and can do MSMQ, TCP, UDP and more (it's extensible) in addition to HTTP.
> the tools are well documented, and everything works as expected. Their stack is predictable, consistent, and dependable. If you want to be able to focus on your product instead of the tools you're using[4], then the Microsoft stack is great. Note: It's cheaper to have your tools work than to hire someone on salary to maintain and debug them.
I don't doubt all you say is true. But consider someone (like me for example) with a Unixy skill-set. I know PHP, MySQL, PhpMyAdmin, Python, Django, Unix text processing tools, etc, and while the MS equivalents may well be very good, when you factor in my time learning to use them, I'm not going to be as productive.
One of the reasons I know all these tools is that getting started is simply sudo apt-get install whatever and I'm off. If MS want a higher uptake of their developer tools, they might make them as easy to get at as that.
I understand that with BizSpark I can use Microsoft's tools without paying much money. But there's a bureaucratic process to getting on the BizSpark program, which I'm guessing takes days or weeks to achieve. By comparison, sudo apt-get install takes seconds.
And that's why I'm using Unix-based tools in my startup.
Microsoft offers free versions of their developer tools with the various Visual Studio Express editions and Sql Server Express.
If you're looking into more enterprise-y software, Microsoft offers free time-limited versions of pretty much all their server and productivity software.
It's not a straw-man. To get that free version, I've got to go to MSDN, register, jump through a bunch of hoops, download some way-too-big installer, run a long installation process, reboot a couple times.. I mean, not that I would ever think of pirating software from a giant corporation that wouldn't even notice the lost revenue, but bittorrent is only very slightly more work than all of that.
apt-get is a whole different plane of ease. It adds about a 3-second fixed-cost to trying a new tool.
Have you ever actually done it? The process of "fill out a form once," hit the Download button and walk away then come back an hour later to answer a few setup questions with Visual Studio is far from the onerous task you make it seem.
I'm no MS fanboy -- my current side project is PHP/LAMP all the way, but I have made money with their free tools.
And if their stuff doesn't work as expected? "Sorry, you are not paying customer, so buzz off" or "sorry, but not enough paying customers want that fixed. You are minority, your money is worthless, so buzz off". While with Free Software you can have your people fix it, or hire consultant. I don't believe in that Bill Gates' ( http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html ) "Microsoft code has no bugs" religious gospel. All software has bugs, except Free one can get fixed.
Sure, but it's less than a thousandth the size, and MS still needs you to restart the whole userspace, kernel, and machine firmware when you install software for some bizarre reason.
Upgrading MongoDB is a five second job. Upgrading SQL server is nightmarish and scary.
Odd downmod. Does someone think the web platform installer has more apps than APT? Or just more than a thousandth? If so, you should probably have checked the size of APT any time in the last 12 years (I'm not sure about before then).
Or do they not believe Windows requires OS restarts anymore (as of Windows 2008R2 it still does, for Microsoft apps too)? Try setting up a server with Office Web apps - it's about five complete OS restarts.
I'll await the blog post; I can't be the only one who's interested the know the motivations. And for the record, I agree that it's the practical results that matter (for those who would criticize an OS choice). We're doing "embarrassing" things with what amounts to an EAV/graph database built on top of MySQL (with all the vertices in-memory), but we're incredibly happy with our results.
Our company is part of the program and we basically get access to everything for 3 years. We're talking VS 2010, SQL Server, Windows, Azure hours and much more.
But it's not free if it's only 3 years - you still have to pay don't you? I'm not arguing the utility of it - I'm wondering if you would have paid anyway - or if the 3 year "loan" made a difference.
It's not a loan. It's free. At the end of the three years you can keep the software, continue using it, and never pay a dime to Microsoft (actually $100).
You can in theory, build Google on it, make $50B over 20 years, and never pay MS a dime, all while using MS software.
With that said, if you do want to upgrade to new versions of the software after 3 years, then you'll have to pay for upgrades. But that's like saying that someone giving you a new car for free isn't really free, if they don't give you a new car every year. Or if ATT and Apple give you an iPhone and service free for 3 years, its not really free unless they give you a new iPhone every 3 years (and free ATT service).
Note that if you keep your MSDN license, it doesn't entitle you to use much in production. You can't, for instance, run SQL Server in production using an MSDN license. Nor can you use Exchange and Windows Server.
"Startups may keep and continue to use, for development and testing purposes, all the software they received as part of their BizSpark MSDN Subscription. In other words, they have perpetual development and test rights to that software."
"The BizSpark Graduation Offer allows BizSpark startups to keep, at no charge, all the software they acquired through the BizSpark program"
"Under the graduation offer, the MSDN Ultimate licenses that came with BizSpark are perpetual, so startups keep all the tools and platform software they got from the program for development and testing purposes, including Visual Studio and Expression"
"Similarly, startups will also have perpetual rights to all of their Windows and SQL Server production licenses"
Now your claim may be that BizSpark doesn't supply enough licenses for you, but it is FREE. After BizSpark is done, you never have to pay MS a cent to keep and use the SW acquired in BizSpark.
In fact, I didn't realize they'd waived the $100 fee.
Like I said, if you want to upgrade or get additional licenses, you have to pay for those. You can build your $50B empire all on BizSpark, although you'll just have to write a very efficient backend to handle the transactions with only a couple of SQL instances, but there is nothing stopping you, but your ingenuity :-)
From that same page: The BizSpark Graduation Offer assumes a standard production configuration of 4 Windows Server Standard Edition and 2 SQL Server Standard Edition (Proc) which we believe will meet the needs of most startups. For startups who have different or greater needs, the BizSpark team will work with them to build a customized configuration at graduation.
I can't reveal details but the graduation offer Loopt has received (a customized configuration) is fantastic. We'll be much better off at the end than when we started, and don't regret it for a second.
That's great that it works for you - and I don't think anyone is suggesting it's a bait and switch (I tried to be very careful with the post's wording). My point in this thread isn't that it's duplicitous - more that it's not free.
I'm sure you guys had to work some licensing (which probably came under an agreement to enroll in another program). This isn't free - it's an engagement. If you left the program you would have to pay, I'm sure.
And if it works for you - that's good stuff. I'd be very interested in reading about your choices and why you went this route.
And? Where's the logical flaw? There is none. Honestly, this is the type of stuff I could show to a high school critical thinking class and most of the class would understand it. Maybe my bar for HN is too high.
Unfortunately typing slower doesn't have the same impact as talking slower.
It's not free - the thing you're not seeing here is that if you don't qualify for the continued "free-ness" of BizSpark (meaning re-upping), then you need to buy an MSDN license and make sure that your dev staff is covered appropriately with those licenses.
You CANNOT run production SQL on an MSDN license - neither can you run a web server on an MSDN licensed version of Windows Server. Well, you literally can but you'd be in violation.
It's not FREE. Microsoft doesn't make software to give it out to anyone claiming they're a startup. Read the entire FAQ in its entirety, then understand the licensing for web servers and web data servers - you'll quickly see that you'll need to enroll in other programs (ISV or otherwise) to get the discounts.
Rob you continue to appear to lie on this thread (or are using very sophisticated doubletalk). The devtools are free. You never need to purchase another MSDN license if the current toolset does the job.
Quote me a single line that says thay the dev tools you have a license to must be purchased after BizSpark.
I don't mind having a discussion about this stuff, but calling me a liar is a bit out of bounds.
Now - here's the thing: I've said the same thing 5 times, and you refuse to see it - which is that the software isn't free. The dev tools are covered under MSDN - so yes I'll give you that. And you can engineer it so that your dev team stays very small and you don't need to purchase additional slots.
But that's where it stops. If you run the MS stack with VS, you'll need IIS, SQL Server, and all the other bits that go with it. These are the money-making SKUs friend - and that's my point.
They. Aren't. Free.
So which is it? Devtools? Or can I build $50B Google for free, as you said above.
Again, something that is simply not true. I don't have another way to say it, but to say that it is not true, and it gives the appearance of lying, because I think most people would expect you to know better.
So again, you do get licensed production servers for free. Not an unlimited number of them, but you do get FREE production licenses of WinServer (which includes IIS) and SQL Server.
And yes, you can build, in theory, $50B Google for free with it. Of course, I did say, in theory, and I make it blisteringly clear later when I say, "although you'll just have to write a very efficient backend to handle the transactions with only a couple of SQL instances, but there is nothing stopping you, but your ingenuity".
There's never an obligation to pay MS a dime. You can use the tools to write the new BigTable, to write a web server, a NoSql engine, a package manager or whatever else you like as well to compliment the free software you have.
IMO, I think we've done the job w/ this conversation. You've made the "claim" that BizSpark is not free (although you've backed away from this a bit and now at least seem to grant that the dev tools are). I claim otherwise. BizSpark very clearly calls out what is free and what is perpetual. Sure, you don't get a washer and dryer with BizSpark, but they never said you did. Likewise, I don't believe BizSpark gives you a free Kinect either. But it is very clear what they do give you and the licensing and cost associated with it.
Again, you haven't pointed out where I'd have to pay for a single thing with BizSpark. You've only pointed out that if I want to do MORE than what BizSpark suggests, I'd have to pay. To that I say, duh.
If you are an end user of Microsoft software, this isn't for you. But you are encouraged to develop software that utilises Microsoft software, for end users.
I think you might need to go back and read the terms again :). You're given 3 years (for a $100 fee) of what amounts to an MSDN license (which is pretty restrictive) and then you need to pay. If you want to keep the MSDN-type thing (re-upping) you can - but if you've grown, you can't.
Which means you have to pop for licenses for VS, Exhange, Sharepoint, Office, SQL, Windows Server, etc. SQL and Windows Server is the big one... especially if you've built Google.
Unless you don't plan on your software running on a Windows-based machine, seems like a no-brainer.
Regarding MS's lack of self-promotion. They tend to self-promote what they believe and are mum on other stuff. Like WP7 and Azure -- they won't say its the best, but that its a marathon, not a sprint. But with Visual Studio, they'll happily tell you that it is the best. SQL Server, they'll enumerate the scenarios where they're the best. And with Office, they have no problem making the claim that it's the best office productivity platform.
While Rob would like more self-promotion... I think its fair to say that if you don't know what your tools are good at and are looking at a company to tell you then BizSpark (or any other program) probably won't help you.
Most commercial software vendors have similar programs and analogous offers available to developers, and seemingly most featuring the "for development and testing purposes" restrictions.
If you're operating within the particular vendor's realm and particularly developing over a longer horizon, these programs can be reasonable.
But these programs are also sticky-traps or "free samples" leading to addictions or vendor lock-ins or whatever analogy you'd prefer. (Which is why they exist; duh.) Once entrenched on (Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, EC2/S3, hosted services, whatever) porting out or switching from development to production use can get costly.
Looking forward, consider if the end-users are even particularly going to know or care what software is running under the hood in a few years. While it's a now very successful model, what are the growth trends in three or five years? Between hosting (Azure or slices or otherwise) and virtual machine guests and embedded clients, the operating system and the bag of drivers that it provides is becoming a component of your application, or something you (or somebody else) runs for your customers.
Pick your bag of drivers and choose your particular software addiction(s) appropriately. If that's BizSpark, go for it. Just don't get dazzled by the word "FREE!" from any vendor.
It is a great way to get noticed by Microsoft. If you do not already have lots of contacts at high level, this will help.
All you can eat software really helps.
I develop in C# because my visual studio ultimate edition makes it extremely convenient. I can write code directly as a result of creating a UML model.
Bizspark accelerates startups by removing software barriers. We integrate with Exchange and Dynamics CRM, so for us it was an obvious strategy.
My interactions with BizSpark in Silicon Valley have been nothing short of stellar. I organize the Hackers and Founders meetups [1] in the area, and Joel Franusic [2], the BizSpark evangelist for the area is one of the huge reasons that I have nothing but good things to say about BizSpark.
Joel is a Perl, *nix hacker with a dash of Lisp mixed in. He's been working startups for years, and he helps organize Super Happy Dev House in Silicon Valley. He joined BizSpark because he thought he could help a broad cross section of startups.
Joel doesn't push the Microsoft stack very hard. He's very much a soft sell kind of guy. But, if a startup is interested in working on the Microsoft stack, he's a phenomenal resource.
I was rejected for Bizspark. As part of a wider product, I develop an Open Source OpenXML module for Python.
This requires testing on Office 2007 and 2010, as these apps don't implement the OpenXML spec exactly so there are quirks.
Not sure if the rejection was because it was whether the component that touched the MS stack was OSS, whether MS don't realize that Python runs on Windows, whether they don't want people to use OpenXML on other platforms, or some other reason.
Weirdly enough, I actually started in IT as a Windows NT 4 MCSE when I was 17. I had a very different view of Microsoft then.
_Believe it or not - I disagree with this. Sort of. Microsoft is almost completely invisible in the Valley. I worked there for ... well pretty much my entire career. That's what I do - startups - and only one of them went with Microsoft tools. And that was back in 1997 when Active Server Pages was all the rage._
That page lists a number of startups - sure. It's atomic compared to the startups out there. I do agree - it's impressive to see some of the names on the list and it would be nice to see it grow. All the same, you have to admit that it's rather small.
I don't care much about Bizspark but I want this guy to write the front-facing text on my startup's web page when the time comes, he's great in summing up the value in few, well-chosen words.
Why do we need BizSpark? While we would like for our customers to use our web app exclusively, the reality is the majority of practices run Windows and Office. So we built Exchange and Outlook integration using the tools provided by BizSpark. If we hadn't had access to those tools we still would have built the product, but we wouldn't have Exchange and Outlook support at launch. The benifit for us; We built a product better suited for our customers. The benefit for MS: They have another product on the list of thousands that has custom support and integration with their office suite, their bread and butter.
Clearly the biggest benefit for us has been access to thousands in software we otherwise couldn't afford. But we will be looking at the opportunities to network with partners and investors through BizSpark when we're ready.
I see it as a win for us and an ever so tiny win (because of our small user base) for Microsoft.