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After having read Sapiens I realized that there's something deeply disturbing about it all, though.

The fact that Harari seems to think that everything is just a 'story' that we tell ourselves, is way too nihilistic.

Maybe, taking this external perspective, we can understand better the direction in which we're going, but it doesn't resolve a fundamental question: why do we live the way we do?

In the long(human timescale) run, this is unsustainable and depressing, it takes away from the ethics and the aesthetics that have made human life what it is, that have brought us to live the way we do.




> The fact that Harari seems to think that everything is just a 'story' that we tell ourselves, is way too nihilistic.

I find that the great challenge that confronts our species is precisely the search for meaning.

There are myriad options for sale in the marketplace of ideas, many coming with pre-packaged meaning. This is the typical case with Judeo-Christian religions, where some external authority dictates meaning to us. But let's suppose that there really is an Anthropomorphic God in the Sky that created everything and has rules for us. Ok, good for him I guess, but you have to lack a bit of imagination to not see the absurdity of that situation. It's just a parent-child relationship, with an imaginary parent, that spares the followers the pain of confronting existential questions, provided that development remains arrested.

The same is true of Atheists and Materialists. Ok, there's only atoms. Everything can be explained as a cold mechanism that progresses from the Big Bang, through evolution, to us and all of our preferences and inclinations. Of course, given that the scientific model of reality is so useful, it is easy to forget that it is just another story when it comes to meaning.

To actually reach adulthood, I believe that one has to confront the scary reality that one is one's own source of meaning. In one sense the universe is made of atoms, in another it is made of stories. Both of these models are useful, but no model can ever spare you from the task of becoming your own source of meaning.


To you and parent's points: I think Harari dwells on the this distinction so much because one "model" can be changed, and one cannot.

The whole book is a cry for people to understand that most facts of life stem from the stories model, not the physical model, and hence are to some extent under our control.


You are correct on all points. Finding your own purpose can be hard especially for those who have lived by the ideas of others well into adulthood. Living on the modern economic treadmill also makes it harder. You have to find purpose within the world you live.


Some of these themes are touched upon in this video, based on Douglas Hofstadter's book 'I am a strange loop'.

https://youtu.be/hQsnHkfs3sA


>The fact that Harari seems to think that everything is just a 'story' that we tell ourselves, is way too nihilistic.

I guess it's a matter of opinion, I didn't find it to be nihilistic at all, nor do I really see/understand why it could be.


I realize that everyone is different - but for me the idea that we create our own meaning is WAY more exciting than a pre-existing or assigned meaning.

It erases any limits on what's possible and makes thinking creatively (humanity's biggest strength) a lot more fun. It also makes the search for truth that much more urgent, since in a nihilistic universe that's all we have.

I also don't see any conflict between this kind of optimistic nihilism and fundamental ethics - mainly that you shouldn't hurt others.

I friekin' loved Sapiens by the way.


Ditto. To my personality nothing is more empowering than knowing that as a species and as individuals the stories we tell ourselves can shape not only our individual lives but the rest of the race as a whole, good and bad (I assume this is where some fears towards this notion stem). I have a feeling people from more collectivist cultures (arguably non-western) dislike this view because it means they aren't writing their "own" story and just being part of someone else's story. I'm just riffing on this latter point.


You can interpret it the other way. The stories we tell ourselves are mostly fiction. We make progress using these stories. It can lead us to unhappy places. We want to find meaning and purpose. But we end up with nihilistic reality. The author has explored aspects of Taoism, the fluctuation between meaning and nihilism. We need to find a balance.


I'm all up for constructing my own meanings, but I reject the premise that it's all "just a story".

The enjoyment I get from riding my mountain bike comes at least in part from adrenaline, endorphins and exposure to sunlight - these are biological realities we likely share with species which can't tell stories.


The problem of meaning is actually a central theme.


It’s just taking a materialist view of the world. E.g., a Marxist would argue our culture is shaped by the prevailing mode of production. Anarchists would also say that any hierarchical structures are imaginary. It’s not really nihilistic, it’s just a different way of seeing how we got to where we are in humans’ cultural evolution.

Instead of thinking that culture just popped out of our heads, it’s thinking that culture is mostly if not entirely tied to events happening in the real world.


How does why we live the way we do correlate to shared mythology like nations and corporations?


Moloch.




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