Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Early to mid-70s could be considered "peak American car", for a variety of reasons --- not long afterwards, emissions and fuel economy regulations tightened greatly and cut both size and power of cars.

But if you've never been in one and have the opportunity to, or even drive one, I'd definitely recommend it. There's nothing quite like the experience of being in a classic American full-size sedan, especially at highway speed. It's very different from the more common modern Japanese car, or even the big European ones.

(Full disclosure: I have one of these. http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1972_Chev... )




> emissions and fuel economy regulations tightened greatly and cut both size and power of cars.

Which greatly improved efficiency. For example the new CLA AMG's engine makes 355hp, and that's a 2.0L [0]. In comparison the to 375hp for 7.5L for the Lincoln-mercury. 177hp/L vs 50hp/L. [1]

American cars of that era were literal boats on wheels. They're good if you want to drive straight lines while towing half your house and feel like you're in a sofa.

[0] https://jalopnik.com/reminder-you-can-buy-a-355-hp-turbo-fou...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_385_engine


The 375hp number for the Lincoln engine is almost certainly gross, and not net hp. They'd run the test on the engines without the accessories like AC, power steering, power brakes hooked up. That stopped in the early '70s with the switch to net numbers. I would not be surprised if by '74, the Lincoln 460 was making ~190hp as we would measure it now.

Of course, comparing it to a modern Mercedes 4-cyl is a silly apples-to-shortbread comparison. Nobody was optimizing for specific output in the 1960s when the Lima V8s were designed. Whatever engine you put in a Lincoln back then had to first be able to move a 5500lb+(!!) sedan off the line, working through a not-terribly-responsive C3 automatic.

Bottom-end torque was the key, and in europe, cars of that mass were often diesel for that reason. In the US gas was $.22 for 4L or so, so a giant V8 with 8mpg was an acceptable solution. The Ford big-blocks were also popular motorhome engines for that reason; many are still running today.

...which is another thing. Those engines were huge in both displacement and packaging by modern standards, massively heavy (cast-iron or forged-steel...everything), and of fairly conservative valvetrain and fuel-system design. While this meant there was a limit as to how efficient you can make one, it also means that they can be maintained almost indefinitely with only modest expenditure of time and money, a statement that I don't think has ever been made about AMG engines of any recent vintage....


Yes, the power ratings of modern car engines are achieved mainly through turbocharging and higher RPMs --- both of which negatively impact longevity. The margin is much smaller, because of computer design that lets parts be run at closer to their maximum stresses, and the designers do not plan for a car engine running at maximum power for much of its life.

You can see a similar when comparing automotive and aviation engines --- the latter are effectively designed for 100% power 100% of the time, and as a result the power density is much lower, because of the need to maintain reliability. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL260i is around 40hp/L at most, even less than the 70s V8.

At the other end, here's a 434 that's been pushed to almost 1700HP(!) with turbocharging, or over 240hp/L:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_DDtXaEdY

A naturally aspirated one can do over 800HP with the right tuning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYpPMcIYx2s

But for the usual passenger car applications of the time, the designers wanted longevity and didn't have the advanced technologies we do now, so they just overbuilt by a very large margin instead.


I once drove one of these old US cars on the German Autobahn. It was sort of OK going straight but as soon as the slightest turn came up it was just scary. The car was very heavy together with soft suspension so it rolled a lot.

But the sound was a lot of fun. You could almost hear the gas (and lots of money) gurgling through the carburetors.


Around the holidays this past year I was home flipping through channels and a movie from the 1970s was on with a car chase scene. It was comical to watch by today's standards... these cars were merely skidding/drifting when making turns and yeah you could see the entire chassis rolling. When you looked past the quick cuts, low angles and other hollywood magic, you could discern that they were not even going that fast. I am fairly certain that a base model civic would have left them all in the dust, at least through the corners.

These were high end for the time cars, Cadillacs, Lincolns and the like. I do remember as a kid being able to hear my father's car engine as he pulled around the corner, those old 70s cars were loud beasts.


You're comparing a car that is almost 50 years newer.

The emissions era really only served to strangle power output and destroy any classical romance in the American car market. Efficiency gains didn't really show up in American markets until some 30 years later in the late 90s at the earliest, until then everything was underpowered and anemic to satisfy EPA constraints.

Look no further than the 5.7L V8 C3 Corvette from the 70s way into the mid nineties when the LT1/LT4 were finally introduced. Until then you had 5.7 liter small blocks barely making 200hp because of emissions regulations.


(can't believe something this self-evidently true is getting downvoted...)

I call it the "Era of Suck", and date it to the passage of the Clean Air Act of 1970, was thrown into full effect by the oil shocks around '74, and ended around '93, the last year you could buy a new car in the US with a carburetor.

Not to diminish the gains made by safety and environmental regulations, but more to point out that these regulations have side effects that may not be visible or significant to those buyers only interested in a transportation appliance, except for the mysteriously increasing purchase price.


> (can't believe something this self-evidently true is getting downvoted...)

What's equally self-evidently true is that we wouldn't have developed our current tech if it wasn't for regulations, and even with them we're too little too late.


Everyone still get the experience of driving behind one of these, every so often. You can smell the partially burnt hydrocarbons trailing 1/2 mile behind these things.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: