But when you start thinking about how there isn't just something from nothing, but something from nothing that can see stuff...then its hard not to view things like turtles-all-the-way-down
I think you missed my point: hallucinating implies thinking. So saying that we're hallucinating that we think is saying that we are not thinking but meta-thinking hallucinated thoughts.
Right! What I meant is that when you look at perception itself, of thoughts or anything else, you run into turtles all the way down, or up. Who or what actually thinks? I do? except I can't decide what I think entirely, even if I do, how do I know that I'm doing it.
The core of it I think is that thoughts are no more "real" than hallucinations. The major difference between thoughts and hallucinations is that thoughts correlate with something real.
