On: Why does APT not use HTTPS?

[jlarocco]

Even with HTTPS, it's easy enough to figure out which package is being downloaded based on the download size, as explained in TFA.

Every time this comes up, it's always the same handful of incorrect arguments made in favor of HTTPS.

The cargo-cult mentality that HTTPS == security really does more damage than it does good.

[zaptheimpaler → jlarocco]

I mean deducing the package from download size is way harder than just seeing the name in the open.. security is rarely perfect and more like an arms race, making things more difficult is a big deal. This kind of "you can hack Y too" argument doesn't make any sense if its way harder to hack Y than X.

[jlarocco → zaptheimpaler]

I would agree with you IF it were actually "way harder", but realistically it's no more difficult than checking the file name or the md5 checksum.

[gtsteve → zaptheimpaler]

What if keepalive is used and multiple packages are downloaded? Surely that is at least plausible deniability.

[wallunit → jlarocco]

Is that even true? In practice rather than downloading a single package you'd download/update a bunch of packages over the same connection, and an attacker would only see the accumulated size, right?

[jlarocco → wallunit]

You can see when you run "apt-get install ..." or "apt-get upgrade" that it opens multiple connections to download packages...

And the Debian contributor who wrote TFA says it's possible, and I'm sure he knows a lot more about it than I do.

[pvorb → wallunit]

I'm not sure how APT handles connections, but with a typical browser connections will be reused if requests are made shortly after another.

That doesn't mean it's impossible to determine what packages you downloaded. But it will be more effort to do so.

[dcbadacd → jlarocco]

Less with HTTP2/TLSv1.3, endpoints are also hard to detect with ESNI.

[AstralStorm → dcbadacd]

No they aren't. HTTPS fingerprinting is easy. It's been done by lcamtuf years ago and it's available as a layer 7 filter in Linux... TLS adds more information because it prevents proxies and has specific server implementations.