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The Blu-Ray Reauthoring Project (temporary.directory)
128 points by Adamantcheese on Oct 26, 2018 | hide | past | favorite | 95 comments



The Blu-Ray video format is pretty cancerous in terms of DRM; there's not really any salvaging it.

One of the most nauseating restrictions of all is that replication plants aren't even allowed to fabricate Blu-Ray video discs which don't have AACS. This means that if you want to get some Blu-Ray video disc fabricated which contains Creative Commons content and you disagree with DRM, for example, you're out of luck: AACS is mandatory. Archive Team had issues with this - as I recall, the best compromise they were able to find was to just put video files on a normal Blu-Ray data disc and get that fabbed. I suspect this is enforced using conditions in the patent licences Sony hands out to fabs or DRM in the software used by fabrication plants, or both.

You start to realise why this is the case when you research how the production process works. When you send a Blu-Ray video disc to a fab for mass production, you don't apply the encryption; the fab does, and you have no control over the process. Moreover, this process involves sending a request for encryption keys to AACS LA, who then issue newly-minted encryption keys for the disc. Yes, this means that all Blu-Ray video discs must be centrally approved by a single organisation in realtime, as an integral part of the AACS application process. Which explains why AACS is mandatory; it lets them catch attempts by commercial pirates to get discs replicated in mass.

So I don't think Blu-Ray can ever become a non-helldamned format. The fact that the specifications are all secret is just the icing on the cake (this is actually the case for DVD too, open source implementations all had to reverse engineer it). I always found it deeply ironic that by comparison, the AACS specification, which specifies a DRM scheme, a type of thing fundamentally dependent on security by obscurity, is freely available.


I find this deeply amusing. I see how this could have worked in the DVD era, but these days with all of the options we have it's no surprise why most people don't have bluray players. It is kinda sad though because as much as streaming gives us options, the quality is always terrible.


Most people I know have bluray players and streaming services, but almost always stream now.

I prefer Blu-ray for quality reasons, and also I find some comfort in owning a physical disc


When I sometimes buy BDs (mostly foreign titles from my native country, not available for streaming from usual sources), I'll rip them raw with MakeMKV[0] decrypting the video TS files in the process. Then I use MKVtoolnix[1] to wrap original video/audio/subtitles to MKV. Generated .mkv goes to a local NAS from where I can play them with Xbox using Kodi or VLC (storage requirement is ~10GB and up / movie - you're essentially grabbing the movie as is from the BD).

This has the benefit that they are now available without having to find the disc, and also this process gets rid of annoying menus and extras and just gets you to the movie. This will also prevent kids from using your BD discs as frisbees.. ;-)

Only downsides I can think of are that last time I checked, VLC/Kodi didn't support Dolby Atmos soundtracks on Xbox and some amount of time that goes into extracting them.

I haven't tried archiving any UHD titles yet, so don't know if this would work for them. I'll hazard it would. Only take more storage.

[0] https://www.makemkv.com/ [1] https://mkvtoolnix.download/


"Most people I know have bluray players and streaming services, but almost always stream now. I prefer Blu-ray for quality reasons, and also I find some comfort in owning a physical disc"

Many years ago it was accepted wisdom that the very best blu-ray player you could buy was actually the PS3.

I am mildy interested in a blu-ray player and I wonder if, in 2018, the PS4 is the best option - in the same way that the PS3 was at that earlier time ?


The PS4/PS4 Pro isn't quite as good a bluray player as the PS3 AFAIK, but it's fine. The main issue is that it doesn't play 4k bluray. The Xbox One S & Xbox One X do, though, and the S is one of the most affordable 4k bluray players.


I don’t understand how a 4K Blu-ray movie with 4x the pixel data can fit on a disc that’s only 2x a 1080 Blu-ray. They must compromise the bitrate? HDR must add overhead also?


The codec moved from h.264 to h.265, which is a big boost in efficiency, plus the extra pixels don't require as much information to describe as the original ones. 128mbit seems pretty good given that


Wow. Mind blown. I never thought of the extra pixel density as carrying less marginal data.


It's a great option, but definitely get the proper remote control for it— navigating the menus and stuff with a game controller is really not great.

OTOH, you can get a regular old dirt cheap blu-ray player for <$100 now.


All Blu-ray players have the same problem because there is only a single source for the transports. The transports are all really loud! Kinda ruins the experience for me.


Now there's 4K Blu-ray (which even the PS4 Pro doesn't support). I'm a big fan of the PS3 media remote but the PS4 remote is much worse.


YouTube and Netflix stream for me just fine. Are you on 4g/fibre?


Theoretically, UHD (4k) blu-rays can go from 80 mb/s to 120 mb/s depending on the authoring of the disc, compared to Netflix's maximum of 25 mb/s that's a massive difference.

However... unless you have a UHD projector, or VERY large TV (60"+) then you are unlikely to see the difference under normal viewing.

Where I feel streaming typically fails, is in the audio. They may 'say' it's a 5.1 surround sound mix, but if so, why does it sound _so_ flat compared to the same film on blu-ray ? All I can think is that the audio is compression is also 4x as compressed which to our ears is quite significant.


It's not the size of the TV, but the quality of the TV. I run a 65" OLED so it's top of the line, but I can clearly see color banding from Netflix on pretty much any TV and it looks terrible. Overall it's just a lower bitrate and compression artifacts on both audio and video make the experience suffer.


Actually even at 1080p, Netflix streams are visibly worse quality than blu-ray. Particularly in the compression of dark colors. I'll occasionally see color-banding, which you never see in Blu-ray.


Oh don't get me wrong, I'm 100% in the Blu-ray camp; Netflix is for casual viewing, but proper viewing such as big hitter movies are on blu-ray always (I'm yet to get a 4k projector).


A 4k stream on Netflix isn't even close in quality to a 1080p BluRay - the bitrate is lower. IIRC they stream 4k HDR at just 25mbit/s. Even the superior codec can't compensate.


Comcast’s gigabyte internet still has a 1TB data cap. So while the bandwidth might be available, you’ll quickly cap out and the overage charges can get as high as $200 a month. the ‘unlimited’ data plan is very expensive as well


That's ridiculous to offer Gigabit/second Internet with 1 TB data cap.

I.e. using that bandwidth, you can consume it in 2.22 hours. So you that's how long they expect you to use Internet in a month? Comcast are smoking something very unhealthy.


> Comcast are smoking something very unhealthy.

This is not news, sadly, and is pretty common for telcom oligopolies around the world. Consumer apathy is a real problem: people know Comcast and have 'no reason' to switch, so Comcast can do what they like and people perceive it as normal.


How can it be consumer apathy when there is only one supplier of internet for the vast majority of households? Very few people have fiber as an option, and even then, it's probably from Verizon or Comcast or ATT, and still only 1 option. DSL and wireless options are not comparable options.

The only solution is for voters to get their act together and demand taxpayer funded network infrastructure and treat it like a utility. It makes no sense for 10 different companies to run fiber to every residence.


I don't think it's consumer apathy so much as lack of alternatives. My only choice for internet (other than dial-up) is Comcast. There's a DSL provider in town, but even if I was ok with DSL speeds, they don't serve my neighborhood.

When I lived in Silicon Valley, it was barely better, I could chose from Comcast or Sonic Fusion DSL. I tried Sonic for a while, but my distance from the CO limited my speed (and maybe line quality) to around 8mbit/sec.


YouTube's stream bitrate is pretty low compared to Blu-ray. It's very obvious (to me at least) at any dynamic scenes.


No.


I don't think Blu-Ray can ever become a non-helldamned format.

"Blu-ray is a bucket of hurt." - Steve Jobs, on why Apple never supported it.


This shows how sick ideas like DRM slow down progress. Amusingly, they keep obsolete technology undead for years too, because of this mandatory requirement.


A compromise might be to author with AACS but silk-screen the disc key onto it? The DRM is how the disc key is protected, once you have the key it's simple decryption.


I actually thought of this. You could put the key on the disc, or publish it, or include it as a file on the disc in a standard location. But no dice: it turns out the encryption is managed entirely by the replication plant. The plant makes the encrypted golden image from the unencrypted image you give them and even you, the disc author, never get to see the keys.


its easy enough to get the VUK after the fact. It really depends who/when the silkscreen printing is done.


Nah, I'm sure that would be breaking all the contracts.


This happens when the format is dictated by a company owning a movie studio.

I think that there should be a law against this.


I thought AACS was completely broken ever since the "09 F9" key was leaked? I wonder if our friends in China could lend a hand with generating the key themselves and getting otherwise "unauthorised" discs made...


I started programming DVDs back in the mid-to-late 90s. I got out of shiny round discs right about the time the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war was still raging recognizing that streaming was the future. I wasn't that entrenched into the HD disc formats, but I remember reading the master key for AACS was leaked making it easy to circumvent. It wasn't as easy as DVD's CSS to crack, but once the master key was in the wild it was game over. Just another example in the wild of why backdoors/master-key encryption concepts are bad.


I wonder, with some amusement, how much the current state of multimedia ripping, editing, encoding, MUXing, etc. owes to the underground community of internet nerds that just wanted to watch their anime.


I'm a little puzzled as to why he's so set on having a physical disc as output. If this is for personal use, wouldn't it be easier to just rip the episodes to mp4 using Handbrake, which can also add subtitles? And once you've got eps as separate files, no need for menus.

I buy a fair few Blu-Rays, but I've never watched one directly. It's just a distribution format for me.


Yeah. I take the UNIX approach to media storage, everything is a file.

If it's not a file, that's probably due to some anti-user nonsense (a dvd, bluray, whatever could just be an FS with an mp4/mkv/whatever file on it, but it's not, 'cos DRM.). A challenge, then.


Given the mention of menus, I could readily imagine someone who uses a Blu-Ray player as their viewing device of choice, and prefers the approach of keeping a library of discs.


Hey there, author here. I mainly wanted to have physical discs so I could have them stored in the collector's edition boxes that can with the original Japanese discs. If I just wanted the video out, then I would've been done in a week!


I personally own a lot of dvd's and blurays, but it's been a while since I actually watch them in that format.

I just rip the disc to my harddrive, demux/convert what i want (usually just the main audio to flac), then remux to mkv and store the result (video + audio + eng subs + commentary tracks). Then just watch in kodi/plex.

Dealing with the actual discs etc seems just weird, neither dvd nor bluray as a media was never any fun to use. Using a remuxed copy of a tv series i'd be half way through an episode by the time the trailers and fbi warnings stopped playing on the disc version.


I had probably 400 DVDs and i never started with BluRay.

Not because of the cost, i can afford what i like to watch, but having to buy the physical copy, which i would rip and put on my storage system and than would probably need to store or throw away, sucks.

Why can't i just buy a digital BluRay? Like yes i can do whatever i want with it :|

Yes i know people would copy those asap but still AARGH...


If you're really rich, you can. Kalaidescope. But the studios really fought them hard on that.


"I liked it so much I had it installed in all of my homes."

-_-


There's also a whole section about their experience installing systems on yachts!


“Kaleidescape” seems to be the exact name, for anyone who got confused like I did here.


Isn't it the exactly same situation for DVDs? Why does it stop you buying BDs but not DVDs?


I had 400 DVDs and thats why i never started buying BDs because i had those issues already with DVDs.


"Blu-Rays are very hard to edit and it's no wonder that they're dying in comparison to streaming"

I see zero corellation here. Out of people buying blu-rays maybe 0.00001% will want to rip them and edit them.


But they might want to watch a video of their kids' school play or some other video not from a big studio.


Do people actually ever watch those videos though? People love to record events and then it collects dust afterwards.


My family definitely rewatches videos all the time. As they grow, my kids become new people every year or so; I like the chance to at least briefly visit every one of the people they have been.


The publisher needs to be able to edit the disc the first time. If that part is expensive in time and money, small publishers aren't going to pick up the format.


For comparison between BluRay and DVD: I did something similar, also for an animated series, for DVD. I took DVDs from Japan, ripped the video, and inserted good subtitles (the original subtitles for the series as released in the US were trash), and burned to DVD.

The hardest part was making sure the subtitles were in sync. After that, a simple shell script and dvdauthor were all I needed. With some modifications, this shell script could also take speedsubbed episodes and produce DVDs containing between four and six episodes per disc (this was before streaming simultaneous releases).

To address a question from mrec above about why physical media was chosen - I was making this set of discs for a friend for a lending library for their club. The easiest way to move video around at the time was DVD (this was right as BluRay was taking off). Having the disc images was also helpful in case the (relatively fragile) DVD-R media got damaged while it was lent out.


I'm kinda glad the piracy community exists because of all the tools and file format they bring to the masses that are useful for legitimate archival purpose, which are well thought and make sense.

MKV containers with multiple audio tracks and embedded subtitles in actual text format makes so much sense that you wonder who the hell thought the Blu-Ray specs made sense.

It tells a lot when mainstream device manufacturers starts sorting these formats that came from the scene.


I haven't done much Blu-ray ripping, but I try to keep an eye on it to make sure it's still "working" as a thing. I want a movie collection, but I don't want to invest heavily in maintaining a RAID array of live drives to store giant 25 GB archives of each movie. I'd much rather just hang onto the Blu-ray discs, and know that inevitably they all get cracked, so I'll always have ripping options if I need it.

As a physical disc you can keep in your possession, it's still really the only way to "own" a movie these days. Vudu is nice, and I'll do a lot of casual watching via my digital copy codes, but the discs are my "collection".


A WD 4TB external drive can store 160 25TB blurays for $100. That adds a "tax" of $1.60 per disc if you rip the raw disc.

I tend to re-encode as libx265 (preset veryslow CRF=18) which is a fairly transparent reencode at 20-40% the size, which lowers the storage cost to under $1 per disc. If you also have backups, that will double the cost, or you can accept the risk and re-rip them if you lose the drive.

[edit] They have 6TB and 8TB options now that are cheaper per-disc if you have more than 160 bluray movies.


Or I could just get the disc off the shelf and pop it in the drive on the rare occasion I want to watch it. What's the benefit to spend the time ripping it?

Like, I manage an ebook library, and I easily spend more time and effort managing said ebook library than I actually spend reading the ebooks. So I'm hesitant to bring myself into movie library management when I have a fairly robust physical storage medium already handy.


Kodi has a great interface for browsing movies, and automatically tags things like director, year, nationality, and summary. My fiancée likes to flip through that to pick things to watch; it's a lot easier and faster than trying to figure out all those details from the backs of BDs, which often make it very difficult to even see the duration of a film.

And it allows me to mix together video files from BDs and DVDs with files from other sources (a lot of which are commercially unavailable, such as an Ethiopian film which has never been released except on VHS and a version of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg which has been modified to fix a color error) into one seamless interface.

Obviously, though, this is just what works for me. If physical BDs are easier then by all means go for it.


If you spend more time managing your ebook library than reading your ebooks, then this might not be for you. I have ~100 ebooks and it's "load in calibre then forget about it until I want to read" Movies took me slightly longer as while (Author, Title) is unique for books, (Title) is not.

More recently I discovered (Title, Year) is near enough to unique that I can name my rips that and Kodi is happy.


There are a variety of benefits that not everyone cares about:

Files don't get scratched or lost.

You can play them on your PC.

You can get right to watching the film.

You can use your favorite player.

You can use smooth video project to interpolate frames. Especially helpful, since the vast majority of content is 24/30fps, yet the vast majority of displays are 60hz or more.


Time and effort wise it would be unsmart to not keep them properly backuped up. Otherwise reripping 4-8tb of data is time consuming.

25gig costs 50 cent / month to store on something easy like google drive.

For keeping a zfs cluster up and running and maintained, its probably way cheaper but still you pay for power, hardware and your labour.


so that $6 a year. at $6 a year, it could be better to just buy a replacement in the future.


Blu-Ray rips from Handbrake etc aren't the raw on-disc encoding, and aren't actually that big. ~2-3GB is typical with decent quality. Often the filesize is surprisingly close to that from a DVD, presumably because the DVD one is encoding a bunch of unwanted compression artifacts.


Because a DVD is using mpeg2 and Handbreak uses x.264


No, I'm comparing re-encoded rips to mp4 from both DVD and BD, both via Handbrake, both using H.264.


Okay; But in that case i'm not really sure how you rip your DVDs. H.264 for DVD and that low resolution doesn't need 2-3 Gig at all.

Sure audio is always an issue, can't do much there.


I'm not saying the BD rips aren't bigger, just that they're nowhere near as much bigger as the resolution and quality improvements might suggest. So BD averages maybe 2.5 GB, and DVD averages maybe 1.5 GB, while a BD frame has nearly 7 times as many pixels.

I do set CQ a couple of stops higher for DVD, as per Handbrake recommendations, just because DVD has to get enlarged so much when watching fullscreen.


You can see the difference between Blu-ray and streaming.

Streaming has similar bitrates than what you get when you reduce a BD down to 2-3 Gig.

It still looks good for sure but if I would buy the disk I would not reduce it as strong as 2-3. Perhaps 10gb.


2.5 GB will give you terrible picture quality for a Bluray. Even streaming from Amazon or Netflix will be 5-6 GB for a two hour movie, and those are usually just passable.


Eh, I'm old, I can remember watching VHS and doing graphics at 320x256, my eyesight's not what it was, and I'm playing these things on a 7-year old laptop. That "terrible picture quality" does me fine.


Back when I cared about physical media I wrote a substation alpha to blu-ray subtitle encoder.

It isn't exactly spec compliant. Hilariously, the spec is patented dispite prior art & simple run length encoding: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090185789/da).

Output is good enough for power dvd when using the admittedly closed source TSMuxer. Always meant to try to port it to ffmpeg, but it just doesn't seem worthwhile, given the context of Netflix.

https://github.com/slartibardfast/punkgraphicstream


I actually tested out PunkGraphicsStream as a subtitle renderer, but it had issues with some fade effects which is why I had to go with easySup instead.


What a strange end-goal. I'm not sure why you would want to "reauthor" a DVD or a Blu-Ray, as their contents are much more convenient once you've ripped and transcoded them. The difficulty he encountered doesn't sound like a good reason at all to buy DVDs instead.

I have roughly 200 Blu-Rays in my collection, and I've watched maybe one or two of them in an actual Blu-Ray player.


I'm secretly pleased that I never really took up the format and am still buying DVDs if I want a hardcopy of something.


I'm rather disappointed that he pirated some software for this. I thought this would be a how-to to help people in the future.

>You can find a copy of the BDFix Pro installer and a keygen here.


He said that the cart page of the software website was blank, the last version of the software was from 2012 and the web page was last updated in 2014, so he had no other option.


Legally dubious, morally ... make your own mind up?


Legally dubious? Not sure of the "website is old so pop along to a .ru site" exemption to copyright law. Did the author attempt to contact the copyright owners or discover an alternative?


I did attempt to contact the owner of the site. Nothing happened for 2 months. All other alternatives were expensive or not maintained, so that was the best I could find.


Indeed. It may be legally wrong, but what is the risk that they will actually sue you?


Likely none. The product in question is a translation and upgrade of a Chinese tool anyways.


As a graduate of a Jesuit University...a strong argument can be made that laws are legitimate since they reflect community values. But that same justification means that when laws don't reflect community values (corrupt politicians who may be motivated by greed rather than genuine community values), the laws are not morally legitimate.

I think most would agree that copyright laws fall into the category of "of, by, and for the 1%" as they currently exist. (They would look much different if the only goal was to protect inventors and protect society.)


There is pretty strong evidence that US laws do not reflect community standards[1]. So by that standard, they even by that standard, they are not morally legitimate.

[1] https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...


That's why it's legally dubious.


Probably you are using a non-standard definition of the word dubious.


Not the original poster, but Merriam Webster gives a sense 2b to dubious:

questionable or suspect as to true nature or quality the practice is of dubious legality


Exactly. The usage in question is completely at odds with the legal protection afforded software created in the last few years.


> links to a .ru website

Have fun with that.


I mean, it is a 'how-to'.

You just don't want to follow the instructions. ;)


Blu-Ray is complicated and stupid.

A better way is, simply patent-free unencrypted video files with track numbers and caption streams, perhaps on a HD-DVD disc (without using the HD-DVD video format). We don't need menus and AACS and all of that other junk, please.


So basically you'd be better off ripping and then adding subtitles and video files as data on your media of choice (BDRay, HDD, networked HDD, etc.).


My son, 11, just asked me "What's a blu-ray?" Need I say more?


> We'll be using easySUP to convert our ASS file to a SUP file.

Was the spec written by precocious twelve-year olds?


ASS stands for Advanced Sub-Station (Alpha). It's a newer version of the Sub-Station Alpha format. Acronyms aren't always made to be funny, sometimes they just turn out that way.


Off-topic: Accessibility-wise reversed out type is difficult to read, if one must have a black background a green colored font is best.




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