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Testing the June Intelligent Oven (cooksillustrated.com)
64 points by mace on Oct 6, 2018 | hide | past | favorite | 40 comments



Can we talk about commodity kitchen hardware?

A brand new microwave seems to have the same halfassed, user hostile firmware they shipped around 1999, oriented around a fixed segment display. I would like to see some simple additions that would make a world of difference.

* Add some IR temp sensors, for what $5 in parts, that can heat to an approximate inside temp.

* Update the firmware, for example, to stop beeping when you hit Stop. The commands could actually be far simpler than currently: you really just need "boil", "warm", "defrost" and "reheat" commands - let it figure out the energy needed.


I’ve got a Panasonic that I think I got from Costco a year ago. Not sure the model, but it says “The Genius” on it. It fails the “updatable firmware criteria” as far as I know, but it has some kind of passive food temperature sensor. There’s a button labelled “sensor reheat”, and the vast majority of the time it’s all I use.

It does a pretty damned good job of things. Frozen food will occasionally still have a cold spot, but it’s still way better than following the instructions on the package, which often results in either serious cold spots or a cheese/sauce explosion. For reheating leftovers, it’s perfect.

Edit: my partner informs me that the “keep warm” button does a really good job of making porridge for her too. Brings it up to a “just below boiling” temperature and keeps it there. She just watches it until it looks like the right consistency for her.


I use the keep warm feature on my instant pot as an alternative to a microwave. I'm not paranoid about microwaves - I just don't like constantly cleaning them.


So instead install a weight sensor and estimate based on that how long to zap stuff. There has been 0 progress in microwaves for a long time now, while many many easy improvements seem rather obvious to most people.

Personally I'd love for my microwave to have bluetooth so it'd make my phone beep when it's done.


My cheap unbranded microwave has a dial to set the power (which is always on max) and a clockwork dial to set the time, which also starts the oven when turned.

This is the best UX of any microwave I’ve ever had - I can start it with the correct time in a single action just by feel - I don’t even have to look at it.

I very much doubt it has any firmware to speak of, or what feature such firmware could possibly offer that would improve my experience.


I agree completely. Knobs are very intuitive and self-indicating. The very first microwaves used that UI:

https://www.radarange.com/


A dial for power and a dial for time is the way to go. Everything else is just overcomplicating the solution.


Also, could we please add some form of accessibility? As somebody who is visually impaired, microwaves win for least accessible devices in my life. The non-tattle buttons are near impossible to use. We just got a new microwave at home and the buttons even seem to be capacitive so it is even harder to use.


You can still buy microwaves with spring-loaded timer knobs where a given angle corresponds to a fixed amount of time. The blind people I know all have them.


The really simple firmware change I've long wanted is when the oven finishes, start a count up timer in the display.


I have an LG inverter microwave and it has an annoying "cute" song it plays when it finishes (and periodically to remind you unless you open the door). There seems to be no way to shut it up without opening it up and disconnecting things.


Have pulled open every microwave I've owned and cut the speaker. Dozens of buttons, not a single mute switch.

Microwaves are loud enough as it is, you can hear them running from the next room. Strangely enough never seen a toaster with an buzzer though.


This is why I genuinely feel like this stuff should be open sourced. There is no way that the firmware in a modern microwave is providing them some competitive advantage. Not everyone can recompile firmware but some helpful individual on a forum could dive in to it, provide an updated build, and share flashing instructions.

Manufacturers close source things by default but there’s so much improvements the hackers of the world could make to things if we had source code and schematics. I think it’s a real shame that the status quo is closed source by default.


Agreed. I honestly perfer the 70s dial to most modern interfaces. One step, done.

Meanwhile if I don't want some useless preprogrammed setting, it takes a minimum of 4 keypresses to set a time, to say nothing of power. I can order food online almost as easy ffs.


I liked the food service one I used years ago. 9 buttons, numbered 1-9, and they ran the oven for 10x seconds at a pop. Add one button/latch to open, and it was a simple as it could be.

Toss something in, hit 1 button, ding, open door.


My very cheap microwave does that same behavior only it's in minutes. It also has a 30 second button. Save for heating pancake syrup (a 10 second job) I rarely set a time explicitly or wait to cancel a button press early.


Add some IR temp sensors, for what $5 in parts, that can heat to an approximate inside temp.

Food is not thermally transparent. The outer surface will quickly reach the cavity temperature so that's not an indication of the core temperature. The accepted way to measure the core temp is with a probe.


Look at the UIs on commercial microwaves, sold for restaurants. On many, the designs are what commenters here are looking for - I suppose busy restaurant kitchens don't want to bother with the nonsense either. They cost a bit though.


I have one like that, a Miele with a temperature probe that commumicates with the oven. It does a lot of other things automatically too, holds temperature very accurately, great oven. They exist.


Did You know the vast majority of modern microwaves have a keypress sequence to turn off the beeping?

I seem to remember on most it’s something like holding the 0 or 1 buttons for 3 seconds.


Yes but that wasn't my complaint. If it begins beeping, opening the door or pressing cancel should stop the beeping immediately. Every Mike I've every used has continued the beeps until it was good and done. Poor UI easily fixed.


Wow, what good timing. My wife and I don't cook a whole lot so we don't want a full size oven, but were thinking about getting one of these smaller toaster-oven footprint appliances. We were looking at the June oven and, e.g., the crazy Brava Light oven (which seems cool, but I can't get over the woo-woo marketing materials).

Cook's Illustrated is a really respectable magazine, so this recommendation carries some substantial weight for me.


I got one of the 2nd version June's as soon as they came out and I cannot recommend it enough. It makes so many things an absolute breeze.

Salmon is surprisingly good, though the June does not get the skin crispy - if you like crispy salmon skin on your salmon fillets you'll still need to do it on the stove.

I also really love how good it is with frozen pizzas. If I want a light dinner, I'll toss a frozen pizza in there and 20 minutes later it's perfectly done and anywhere from 600-900 calories per pie.

I literally have not turned on my real oven since I got it and likely won't until Thanksgiving. I doubt a big turkey will fit in the June.


Neat, thanks for the hands-on report! Have you had any maintenance issues with it? My only hangup at this point, I think, with a fancy "smart" oven is that there are more things that can break or be buggy. And how is it to clean?


So far, no issues. I’ve seen a few scattered reports of problems in the owners facebook group but it’s impossible to tell from that overall reliability. I can say their support has appeared to be top notch.

The pan is insanely easy to clean. It’s the best non stick pan I’ve ever owned. Inside the oven can be tougher. My fiancée likes to make cheese on toast and often it drips to the drip pan and crusts up, but if you keep on top of it it’s not too bad.

Feel free to ask any more questions you might have about it.


Awesome, thanks for the info! I'm pretty sold on it, but when I went to their site to order it looks like there aren't any available for another month or two. In that time, I think the Brava infrared oven should come out, so I'll probably see the reviews on that thing and then get one or the other.


I think I would pay $100 for a toaster oven with a decent PID controller, controls that made sense (what does "200F" on dial 1 and "Toast" on dial 2 even mean?), and had a decent chance of working in 20 years. I've already got a pretty decent set of sensors + heavy duty, self-updating neural network between my shoulders, thanks.


If you would be OK with a little DIY work, Google for things like "reflow soldering with toaster oven". There have been many conversion projects to adapt cheap toaster ovens for hobbyist reflow soldering.

This involves putting in some good temperature sensors, and bypassing the built-in controls to put the heating elements under the control of an Arduino or similar controller.

Some even add a cheap graphical LCD that can show a graph of temperature over time, and a simple interface to let you enter temperature profiles to follow.


I’ve built one of those. They also need a bunch of insulation, heat spreading plates and another heating element to get reasonably even heating.

You can drop the insulation for food use, but thats one of the cheaper parts of a build.

Since temperature is important for reflow (melt the solder without melting your leds and connectors) they have good ways to calibrate them.


bake means to turn on the bottom heat element, broil turns on only the top element, and toast turns on both elements.


OMG you’ve rocked my world. I always thought toast was a magically hot setting beyond broil.


I really like that this oven has a camera, as well as temperature probes, and that it’s all integrated into the oven’s experience through a app on the phone. Do they have any competitors doing this stuff, or are they alone in doing this right now? I am impressed - they’ve decomposed the idea of what an oven experience usually is (stationary waiting and checking) and shifted it to what it could be (check on it from a distance, data driven shutoff from measurements). Very compelling use of simple features. That’s exciting design!

This enables “Put a turkey in the oven, and run to the store and pick up the frozen green beans you forgot to buy - you always know how the turkey is doing.”


There are www.brava.com as well.


There's Tovala, but it only works with their own meal kits.


I don't know how they compare to the June but there are many models of convection ovens in Japan that claim to figure out what you put in them. Many of them will optionally add steam and nearly all of them will also do microwaving as well.

Here's a few from Panasonic

https://panasonic.jp/range/

and Sharp

http://healsio.jp/


Are they only available in Japan?


I don't know. I'd assume they are only sold in countries where it's not common to have an oven. In the USA I've never seen a house or apartment that didn't have an oven included so if my experience matches reality than at least in the USA it doesn't seem like there would be any market.

What other countries is it not common to have an oven?

One top of that there is the issue that if it's not common to have an oven then it's also not common to cook things that would require an oven. So, I have no idea how common these ovens are in Japan in general. Given so many models by so many companies and given they can also be used as a microwave I'd kind of assume they are gaining in popularity. Foods that require an oven are also slowly getting more popular over time but I suspect it's still not common.


I’ve had a Breville countertop convection oven for 9 years and it has been used daily multiple times since I got it. When I saw the June oven I was skeptical, but cooks illustrated giving it a positive review is actually quite an achievement. I may decide to get one now as my Breville is finally starting to give up.


Likewise. The brain got fried and my convection button now toggles Celsius on and off.

This looks like the spiritual successor to the Breville.


You too?!

My start button turns convection off and on 50% of the time. Annoying, but I just hit it again.




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