Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

So, any speculation as to why jabber never replaced (or even really contended with) irc for developer chats?



Jabber rode the wave of "everything must be xml". Try debugging anything that's based on irc - you can do it using telnet (and/or tcpdump, if you need to see full client-server interactions). Now try doing the same for Jabber. Typing xml snippets into telnet is not pleasant.


Indeed, which is why it's typically not done, there are many better XMPP clients with debugging capabilities (including command-line ones) than telnet.

Personally I much prefer debugging XMPP to debugging IRC protocol issues since it's always obvious what is going on from what goes over the wire, whereas in IRC you are frequently forced to look up random specs to figure out what some obscure numeric code means to a particular implementation of the protocol.


In the glory days of IRC, everyone was using it. Now most social medias have replaced the need for it. I think that what really killed IRC was msn/icq, specialised and targeted chat instead of meeting random people (which is quite hard to do these days).

IRC was the precursor to many specific stuff that later gave whole industries. Stuff like online dating didn't exist, interest groups like #linux or regional chatrooms like #Montreal. I think that jabber rose during the fall of IRC but they didn't manage to catch the fleeing users since their service is quite similar to what people were leaving. Since the web caught on online dating and such, IRC and jabber became less and less interesting for most of their former users.


Critical mass (or the lack of it) would be my guess. Social tools are not very useful if you are using it alone. And switching IM requires quite a lot of momentum imho.

And there are some technical stuff too. Jabber is much heavier and noisier protocol. And afaik there isn't a Jabber client comparable to irssi yet.


Good point, I think abstractbill nailed it with the XML, which would explain why there was never a good (or great) client. I remember having the client conversation when Jabber was growing, there were clients you could use but nothing that you really wanted to use.


BitlBee (http://www.bitlbee.org/) is the answer. Use IRC, ICQ, MSN, XMPP and Twitter from within irssi.


Except that irssi itself can speak XMPP with a plugin, you need to mentally decouple UI from protocol.

That said, irssi-xmpp is certainly in need of some hacker love...


IRC client running in background is non-obtrusive, while Jabber is primarily intended for IM, which means frequent distractions. I know many developers who do not use any kind of IM, while they frequently chat on IRC.


There is nothing about Jabber group chat that requires any frequent distractions, and group chat Jabber apps I have used seem to behave somewhat identically to irc clients (granted, this was ~4 years ago).


Yes, but the Jabber group chat implementation is actually half-assed at the protocol level. IRC actually does a much better job and has much better features for managing large group conversations.


What was the reason for developers to switch over? "A better protocol" isn't a good one.


That they've had extensibility in mind for forever and actually make improvements that allow for richer features beyond text-only chat? Don't try to market DCC to me.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: