Holding off buying a new MacBook Pro at the moment. It’s like issues pop up every other week and I simply cannot buy a machine that is not reliable. Also looking into a Lenovo Thinkpad w/ CentOS as an alternative, even though it would be difficult. It’s a pity.
Yeah it is horrible how you can't repair or replace anything but it does work so damn well and I have had so much hassle with other laptops that I just thought fuck it and went with the MBP.
I had a Surface Book 2 which was one of the worst laptop experiences I have had in the past decade and it was close to the MBP in price. Microsoft waaaay over-engineered the Surface Book just to be unique yet still don't have the software experience good enough to be totally reliable.
I have never had my MBP fail to wake from sleep like my Surface Book for example. Or the daily need to detach/reattach from the base so that the backlight for the keys works properly, etc. So many weird quirks with that thing.
It's technically possible, but they don't seem to have a tonne of parts available, especially for the new models (2016 onwards). Also, pretty much every component is soldered to the logic board (memory, ssd) with a few small exceptions, and the computers can be more difficult to open.
Previous generation was slightly more upgradeable. You could upgrade the SSD, though only 1 or 2 vendors sold products that worked, and you might have to jump through some firmware issues.
Not really. I got the i9/32GB/1TB model. It is fantastic. The only "issue" I have had is related to the Mojave beta which is kind of to be expected with a beta. Everything about this machine is basically perfect. As I said I even love the keyboard. It is really nice to type on for hours at a time. Yes it feels kinda weird at first but it really isn't as bad as people make out. It is is much, much nicer to type on than my XPS 13 which has very mushy keys that just feel uncomfortable.
>It is is much, much nicer to type on than my XPS 13 which has very mushy keys that just feel uncomfortable.
Going to strongly disagree with you here as this seems like major shilling.
XPS 13 keyboard while not the best, is still miles better than the 2018 Macbook Pro keyboard which is a complete disgrace to typing. I have to jump over to my external keyboard when using my MacBook Pro at work.
Nope but I have read about some people who have a horrible crackling sound.
I do have one weird issue which seems related to installing the Mojave beta which is the machine will randomly wake up from sleep and play the power connected chime then go back to sleep. Very strange and only started happening when I installed the Mojave beta so I am assuming it is some kind of firmware bug as it is a beta after all.
Other than that this machine is perfect. Keyboard is great and much quieter than the previous butterfly models. Screen is gorgeous and with the addition of True Tone it is even more lovely. I didn't realise just how blue my XPS 15 screen is compared to the MBP. Plus it is almost always silent and stays cool even with a moderate workload. Obviously if I do anything serious it gets warm and the fans kick in but for regular work in IntelliJ and Xcode it is cool and quiet.
I am getting around 10h battery life as well for normal work, about 12 for web/Netflix.
Buy a 2015 macbook pro, its the last one without any issues, superior keyboard, legacy ports as well. Smaller more compact touchpad as well
The only downside is it is only thunderbolt 2, and they recently went away with external GPU support for new macOS updates.
I paid $1500 for mine in practically brand new mint condition on amazon, buying a new a 2018 version was $2500 roughly for something that also had 512 GB SSD.
I find the macbookpro has way better ergonomic features than windows laptops. Also, programming environment is just so much nicer IMO on mac.
Yeah my laptop of choice is 15" MB Pro mid-2015. Picked up 2 of them over the last couple of years from Apple's refurbished store and I think with OS X it really is still one of the best laptops out there. A little tip - you can use https://refurb-tracker.com/ to get alerts when they get in stock.
TBH it's the MB Pro + OS X combo that works so well. MB Pro + Windows is definitely sub-par... lot of other great laptops for that. I've never tried Linux on a MB Pro.
Ubuntu runs great on my 2013 15" Macbook Pro. It does mess with the boot manager, and can become unstable if you install it simultaneously with boot camp.
The only issue is that the trackpad drivers aren't so good. Stick to OS X if you're a trackpad gesture power user.
Thanks for the tip! I reluctantly bought a 2018 MBP but returned it within a week. I thought I would have to stick with my workhorse 2012 MBP, but now I'll check out refurbished 2015s.
> Also, programming environment is just so much nicer IMO on mac.
Really? I had a Mac for a few years, but I found that I didn't like the environment as much as either Windows or Linux. A lot of programming environments work best on a Linux-like environment and don't do so well on something BSD-like (such as MacOS). There's a lot of open source software that only works on Windows and Linux, too... MacOS has such a small market share that many open source developers just ignore it.
It must depend on niche. For web development sort of things or python sort of scripting, it is Windows that is regularly ignored the most by a wide margin.
I work on Mac OS X and my experience is quite good. Homebrew + IntelliJ and I can get my Java development going guite easily (plus redis, mongodb, tomcat, zookeepper...
I guess it dependsd what you are doing. I don't do C#, .net development /.net framework(WPF), game development, SQL-server, or things that are better on a native windows platform. So I don't really reap the benefits using a windows PC.
Native folder navigation and terminal is much nicer on macOS. MacOS has better 3rd party programs for productivity in programming IMO. Iterm2 allows you to have multiple custom terminals all on one screen, and can be a transparent overlay so you don't have to swap between apps as often. The best 3rd party terminal I have found was cmder on windows, but it would always give me path developmental issues that had no explicable causes why something failed. Something that failed in MS-DOS, would work in gitbash, but fail in cmder. The solution was to just uninstall and reinstall everything many times, or just do a restore point.
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Docking experience on macOS has a nice native feel to it, I prefer its transitions as well. In windows, I would run a combination of taskbar tweaks include resizing all app icons, adding blank exe spacer shortcuts, and run autohotkey scripts in the background. Windows definitely still has way more customization methods using 3rd party apps than does mac.
Macbook pros have a superior experience when it comes to handling things on a single screen. Its just convenient to use native gestures on the trackpad and move across your terminal VS browser VS website. I prefer a double monitor experience on macbook pros as well. Its just so much easier treating that monitor as a seperate "desktop space" rather than one jointed area like in windows. I've owned 2 windows laptops before this. Also, the hardware on a 2015 macbook pro is definitely much nicer (better form factor for its value) than any windows laptop I've used before.
MacOS handles dependency issues much better than windows. Every app just lives in its own tiny little folder, also downloading and installing things is just so much easier. Using unarchiver on macOS is just a one click install for most things. With windows I ran revo uninstaller, but in MacOS there is an equivalent called AppCleaner.
In macOS, when I install things I use homebrew (e.g. nodeJS). With windows its always been a full uninstall using a fully packaged exe or msi file type.
MacOS does have some programs that really suck compared to windows. My favorite apps in windows are shareX / greenshot, macOS has no close equivalents to it. I use this to make gif documentation logs during webdevelopment all the time, its very handy. I haven't really given Wine (running windows apps on mac) a try though. MacOS doesn't have an app like "timesnapper" which I use in webdevelopment in sysadmin work, which helps me play back my entire day to see what I did. Helps in catching which settings caused which errors during development, and also its good for post documentation reasons as well. MacOS had no equivalent unless you intend on running OBS software all day long or used special custom applescripts
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When I develop on a windows machine it seems like there is just so many more potential bugs I have to face. When I go look up a solution, its more scattered because people have windows 8 laptops. Or 8.1, which is just a whole set of other problems. Or they are still using windows 7, some are using the latest windows 10, etc. Sometimes I'll try every possible solution to that issue, none of them work, I'll try it 10 different ways, no go. I end up just giving up honestly, its not fun when you are fighting unforseen issues and can't get into what actually matters.
With macOS its a little more uniform, since things aren't scattered windows7,8,8.1,10 issues. Everyone has the same problem, so chances are higher there's going to be some solutions out there that would actually work. Since the experience is also more consistent across both the hardware+software, there is also less unknowns.
With windows I would run into potential hardware issues and software problems as well. My old windows 8.1 laptop could not upgrade to windows 10 due to intel L2 caching error upgrades, drivers would fail, etc.
I haven't really tried a pure native desktop Mac experience though, but I still definitely prefer windows for this. Probably because I'm so used to windows.
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I like having both a windows desktop and macbookpro laptop experience so I can get the best of both worlds
I used a personal linux laptop for 2 years, mostly when my windows laptop went to shit from poor performance issues. Linux just has such a huge lack of apps that I rely on everyday in either macOS or windows.
Also, macOS just has better native multimedia experience and graphic design programs well, so there's that. Nothing really compares to Apple Sketch on windows. iMovie is far superior to windows movie, etc. MacOS just has more batteries included programs that don't suck than windows
I find that in some instances, windows development is treated as an afterthought. In some cases, its macOS. Just depends on what it is IMO. With MacOS, its more tailored toward designers and graphic artists, so webdevelopment (which is what I do) is just a better overall experience
Have you considered virtualization? I tend to use MacOS merely as a hypervisor, where I can step into as many different OS environments as I wish. You mentioned how you like to use Windows; what about using it in a virtual machine?
I don't like using virtual machines, it just adds too much friction to me for getting things done. At least that was my experience on windows OS. I've tried a combination of docker, dockerhub, vagrant, and virtualbox. I'd rather just have a seamless development experience right at startup, macOS is really good at that.
I tend to shy away from tools whenever I can, because everything has a maintenance & learning cost associated with it. Also, because I tend to have a lot of things open at the same time, virtualization really slows me down whenever I have to jump into the virtualized OS's keyboard / mouse / etc.
Down the road I might start using docker images + docker hub if I feel that the benefits (isolating test environments, debugging issues cross platform, deploying) of using virtualization outweighs its cons (maintenance, setting up, memorizing new commands, constantly running commands, etc). As of now I don't have much of a use case for it though.
I'm still holding on to my mid 2012 rMBP despite its battery almost nearing its end of life. Was hoping to upgrade this most recent refresh, but the lack of a non-Touchbar option just turned me off.
Thinking of just getting my battery replaced instead, but I'll consider looking at the 2015s
Well that's not the only downside. You're also nearly $2000 for a laptop with a CPU that is significantly slower than what you'll get in either a new MBP or most Windows alternatives.
> Buy a 2015 macbook pro, its the last one without any issues, superior keyboard, legacy ports as well. Smaller more compact touchpad as well
While I agree, I wouldn't call HDMI, USB and SD Card legacy ports. They are actively being developed and enhanced at the moment. The only thing is that they weren't invented by Apple.
Potentially a large part of that is just visibility into issues on account social media and distribution scale. People keep an eye on Apple hardware issues far closer than any other vendor
I have a 15" 2018 MBP, with 32g of RAM. And, while I don't care for the touchbar or the feels-like-I'm-typing-on-a-hollow-piece-of-wood keyboard, I also haven't had any kernel panics or crackly speakers or any other problems. Which is not to say I won't, but I haven't yet.
And most other vendors sell significantly fewer units across many more SKUs. Thus you would expect with a smaller product portfolio you'd have greater engineering resources to work out the kinks.
Imagine that, it even has all the ports one would expect on a professional's computer. It's going to be hard to give up macOS but Apple is too obsessed with aesthetics. Design can only ever be as good as function and if you sacrifice function for design then it's a failed design.
I hadn't ever noticed that, but it must be because of the trackpoint. The trackpoint is centered in between the home keys so you can reach it with your index fingers, mouse buttons below that for thumbs, and thus trackpad below buttons. The root issue is that the place you rest your hands on a qwerty keyboard is slightly left of center.
Edit: now I can't unsee that MBP has its trackpad right of home key center :)
Add lack of 16:10 screen to that. It's getting dumb. Is Apple buying up all laptop screens with this aspect ratio? Also, are non-Apple trackpads getting better?
These two things are the biggest issues every time I ponder moving to Linux (Windows is not an option or I'd look at the Surface alternatives). The P1 does indeed look very interesting otherwise.
HP spectre x360 has a centered trackpad... but I higly advice AGAINST this device for tons of other reasons (including the trackpad, btw, which is top-hinged-real-click and glass-made variety but it's still horrible).
That's a nitpick. When people say off center, they mean numpad. And I can't tell from the render if it is even slightly off center. It's a render for one.
Almost every larger company these days has done something bad like that. Lenovo had superfish, HP had a keylogger, Dell had its own superfish, Acer still installs search toolbars and browser hijackers, depending on how far back you want to go Sony had the BMG rootkit and a camera backdoor, ... Who are you going to get your laptop from now of you ignore all of those - especially if you're going to reinstall your OS immediately anyway?
> Who are you going to get your laptop from now of you ignore all of those - especially if you're going to reinstall your OS immediately anyway?
Clevo. They are a whitebox laptop manufacturer so you will find they are OEM for several smaller brands like MSI, Sager, and others. Yes they are Chinese market, but every laptop is made in China these days, even the big American names, so that part is unavoidable. If that truly is an issue you can't get around, you'll be happy to know that System76 is moving towards producing its devices in house in the United States[1], though I have no idea if the recent tariff wars have affected that situation.
Clevo's hardware is not that great though. I've known several people get System76 Clevo systems and they've all been disappointed. I'm hopeful for System76's new systems, that they will up the quality significantly and make them compare-able to Thinkpads.
Yes, I had a Clevo-produced System76 model and I've had multiple hardware issues with it -- for starters, it failed to POST just days after receiving it, and System76 support did repair it, but they were not very accommodating about it, saying there was no way for them to provide a shipping method faster than ground even if I paid for it, etc. I want to like System76, but the truth is that my experience with them was disappointing.
According to https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8912714/Apple-i... "An unpatched security flaw in Apple’s iTunes software allowed intelligence agencies and police to hack into users’ computers for more than three years" which sounds serious to me if you're an iTunes user (as I guess many Mac and Windows users are).
But I think the real culprit is that all of the organizations the grandparent poster listed distribute proprietary software which is untrustworthy to begin with. Proprietary malware isn't hard to find (see https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/ for an organized set of links) whether it came with the OS pre-installed on the computer or installed later. So long as it adversely affects the user and leaves the user with no permission to inspect, alter, and share the software (only permission to run the malware) the situation is bad.
Get any laptop and clean the shit out of it, mod the BIOS if you want to. I'm still on Elitebooks (8770w), they're tanks, and Intel hasn't made noticeable improvement in CPU performance since Ivy Bridge.
Zbooks seem to continue the tradition. Dell's Precisions are great, too.
Haven't had experience with the newer Thinkpads, the design, materials and being owned by a Chinese megacorp kind of drove me away.
HP's "keylogger" doesn't belong in this discussion. It was a debug trace to a driver. I've left similar traces as part of debugging. It wasn't even their driver but belonged to Synaptics.
As recently as 2016, Windows Thinkpads were documented to be sending daily usage data to Lenovo. The app is easily disabled, but users may not be aware of the telemetry. You agreed to this in the EULA.
If you're tech saavy it's a bit less important. Scamming average consumers is sad, but ThinkPads to me are IBM, not Lenovo, so they have different boxes in my mind. The hardware is good, linux runs nice on it. Case closed.
You should take into consideration that for both IdeaPad (the superfish one) and ThinkPad Lenovo is not much more than brand. These two lines are designed and manufactured by completely separate corporations. What is somewhat funny in this regard is that the real maker of modern ThinkPads (probably at least since introduction of the letter-number nomenclature) is Acer/Wistron with Acer as a brand being mostly known for having sub-par quality. IdeaPads are AFAIK mostly made by Compal.
I was completely unaware that Acer made ThinkPads, and that blows my mind. A quick google was not able to confirm that, which is not unexpected since that sort of rebranding is usually hushed. Do you have a source? Not saying you need one, but wondering if you already have one. Would be interested to read more. I've had a really bad opinion of Acers since buying one a decade ago, and currently have a high opinion of Thinkpads (and am typing on a 2018 model right now).
2) Wistron is a spinoff of Acer. Specifically the Manufacturing/R&D wing of Acer. However, that spinoff happened in 2000, so there really isn't a connection between Acer and Wistron anymore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wistron
You checked the Windows Platform Binary Table in the BIOS/UEFI? That was how they delivered their crapware before. Even a clean install with your own media would inject a Lenovo exe into Windows directly from the BIOS with no way to disable it. Scary stuff.
Yup. Luckily i've got a friend who knows BIOS stuff like I could never do (Hi Greg) - nothing in there. Besides, it gets Fedora 28 installed and Windows is only used for doing firmware updates.
Which tbf Lenovo cocked up a couple of weeks ago and hosed the SSD firmware so it didn't boot. Luckily i'm not a moron so everything was backed up, they sent a new SSD and they picked up the old one to recover, which I assume will be a hardware firmware flash. I don't need the backup, but I am looking forward to Lenovo spending the money for the pickup/flash/delivery to make sure it costs them as much money as possible so they don't do this again.
I think you either missed or ignored the point the parent comment made regarding their reasons for avoiding Lenovo as a company, rather than strictly wishing to avoid spyware in one's own laptop.
I didn't miss it. Don't have any care or skin in the game when it comes to Lenovo, but their Thinkpads have never had this crap in there. When they do, i'm out. HP have crap in their installs, so do Dell. Hell, even Microsoft put Candy Crush in there and telemetry I can't uninstall.
Good for you. Same goes for every box you use that you don't personally inspect the firmware source code for the NIC, ME, graphics card, USB, Thunderbolt controller, etc. Personally i'll stand on the shoulder of giants (people who do actually inspect this, I don't have the skills) and monitor the shit out of my network instead of worrying about it, because I can actually do that bit.
I don’t use windows. There could be one for Linux but I can’t spent my life worrying about what could be. Gotta get work done eventually and I’ve got encrypted boot and data volume with secureboot.
If you have a larger tinfoil hat you can always libreboot an x220.
In 2015, Lenovo (who currently owns the Thinkpad brand) got caught installing adware and certificates into the Windows root certificate store. This is known as Superfish:
It's the difference between recommending the consumer line and business line, they are not related technically. Lenovo's consumer line is Ideapad, their business line is Thinkpad. If they tried something similar on a business line, they would go bankrupt because they would never get another contract again. It would fall under Industrial Espionage which is illegal. That's why governments and large corporations still buy Thinkpad.
You sound awfully confident. This sort of distinction, where you declare something about the world to be certain as a consequence of a certain arbitrary categorization, I have an urge to call "nominative determinism" (although the phrase is generally used differently)
My advice as well – I'm running Arch Linux on a ThinkPad. Debian (unstable) or a recent Ubuntu version might work pretty well too. CentOS follows RedHat Enterprise Linux and has way too old software for modern desktop use (unless they have a branch hidden somewhere I'm not aware of).
Running old Linux versions on new laptops is going to be a frustrating experience; ideally all the device drivers you need are mainlined into the kernel of your distribution so you won't have to mess with those yourself.
Fedora is definitely better on my X1. Stock Fedora 28, rawhide kernel, TLP and iuvolt runs better than Windows 10. Best Dev machine I've ever had and the keyboard is superb.
The X1 is nice but the T480 is only a little bigger, handles heat a lot better, and has (mine does, at least) about 16 hours of battery life under Fedora.
It's hard to really recommend the X1 (or T480s) as a developer machine, IMO.
I had an X1 Carbon and had so many issues I returned it for a refund after 2 months. I had two replacements and they both had quality control issues. Then the engineer who came to fix it broke the screen, twice! How you ask? Unfortunately with the X1 being so thin the display bezel is a piece of sticky plastic which is a nightmare to align on-site (really should be done in a factory with an alignment machine) and when the engineer tried to remove it to align it again he pulled the polarising film off the screen. Shocking.
Thank god for strong EU consumer laws that I got my money back.
Also the fact Lenovo refuse to offer an option to switch between S3 and S0i3 sleep in the BIOS is very frustrating on a business laptop. They only support S0i3 which doesn't even play well with Microsoft's own Modern Standby so is almost pointless for me. Almost daily I would open my bag up to a super hot laptop and almost zero battery as it didn't actually go to sleep like expected.
I bought a 2018 15" MBP which so far has been superb. I wish there was a Windows laptop which worked this well. IMHO it is unacceptable that Microsoft's own Surface Book 2 has so many issues. I have not tried a Surface Laptop, perhaps that is better as it is a "normal" laptop and not an over-engineered mess like the Surface Book. I will most likely pick up a Surface Laptop when they are updated to give it a try as I love the 3:2 screen (much how I love the 16:10 screen on the MBP). I am not a fan of the fabric keyboard though :/
Apple or Samsung laptops for me. Dell has had constant issues with their stuff for 30 years, if they haven't started making a good laptop in 30 years, they aren't going to start now. There's reports that the brand new XPS STILL has stability issues. Just unacceptable.
It’s been a while since I even have a laptop (just a gaming desktop PC with Windows), but I’m glad people recommend Arch Linux.
It certainly was the best I worked with until two years ago, for several years. Sure, it’s got its quirks, but they help you a lot to learn new stuff, and after that, it’s much easier to set it up again in case you needed (I only needed it once every two years or so).
I can't ever go back to CentOS/RHEL or Debian/Ubuntu for my personal machine after having seen the flexibility that Arch provides.
Don't get me wrong, technically you can make Ubuntu just as flexible but you have to try to configure it that way. All the conveniences they brought into these distros for simple package management actually sets you up for failure when you are doing larger upgrades. Not to mention that the packages in their repos are often out of date.
I never had my Arch box fail me across upgrades, allowing me to actually be current in the code I run.
It's a healthy middle between Gentoo and CentOS if you don't want to build it all from source but yet still be current.
Even opkg and some IPAs are better than the package manager experience I had with apt-get or yum/dnf.
You're never going to run Arch in production, so developing against "current" software means "hire a team of sysadmins to package all of these future-versions in to the conservative distro that we have in prod".
With luck it will be less than $1M/yr.
This is why people don't use homebrew anymore, either. If you're running a Mac you dev in a Docker container that reflects your production environment.
My Debian Unstable laptop installation is over ten years old (and on its third laptop), and the packages are pretty recent, since Unstable is a rolling version.
And despite the name, it's pretty solid, I don't remember the last issue I had with it.
Yup. Used to be that the Ubuntu forums were awesome, but there was something about the Arch forums that weeded all the crap out, i've no idea what. I need to add them to the OSS projects I contribute to this year.
I guess as Linux got more popular, more people who didn't really know what they were doing joined in, usually on Ubuntu. The quality of answers dropped as a result.
I think a higher bar to entry often keeps things better quality (coming from the dev world I am thinking about Django deployment versus PHP deployment). Arch was too much of a pain for me to install last time I checked, and its going to be way too much effort for anyone relatively new to Linux.
CentOS is an option, but the hardware will perform better under Fedora due to a newer kernel build to support newer hardware. Feature wise, the only difference you really need to know is that Fedora ditched Yum and switched to DNF. Same command structure, and you can still install yum.
fun fact. Fedora is what RedHat uses to test and flesh out all the fancy features coming in CentOS 8 & RHEL 8. I think Fedora 25 or 26 is what those OSs are being build from.
Linux these days is incredibly stable. As long as you have a laptop that has reasonably high quality (read: open) drivers. Intel graphics, Wi-Fi and a decent SSD/HDD from a known brand is usually enough to have a trouble free personal compute platform.
I have a precision 5520 and haven’t had a single Linux/hardware related issue, before that I had a Thinkpad x201s, and an x201 before that- and further back still I had a T400.
It’s been more than a decade since I’ve personally seen a Linux+hardware issue.
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That said, the value of a MacBook is the build quality of the device and the application ecosystem. Try getting Skype for business and outlook working on a Linux laptop. :/
I use Linux exclusively across all of my computers. The biggest problem is touch support - you can get drivers working fine, but the ecosystem is terrible. Open Source applications are an entire generation behind on basic gesture support. The best drawing apps on Linux don't even support pinch-to-zoom.
This is a solvable problem that I expect to improve, albeit probably not any time soon, and I'm still incredibly frustrated by it right now. Seriously people, just test your software, even a little bit, on a convertible device.
But... if you're not an artist, and you're not using a tablet, and you have someone who can even just help you get set up a little, you kinda, maybe, probably should be at least looking at Linux? Especially if you're using a computer as a professional.
It used to not be this way at all, but I think that modern Linux is generally way more stable than Mac or Windows, and is generally easier to work with for professionals. It's starting to reach the point where it may be easier for low-tech users as well, since you can get someone else to set up a computer with exactly the stuff you want, and then only install security updates.
It's a major selling point for me to be able to go to someone and say, "Hey, Ubuntu will support an LTS for 5 years. You won't need to change a single thing about your interface, and everything will just keep working."
But Apple hardware have no touch screens. I’m not saying it’s not an issue that Linux has poor touch support- I’m just questioning the validity of the concern; if you’d already decided to get a MacBook then you’ve made your peace with not having touch. Right?
Um... possibly? I know artists that swear by the iPad pencil. In theory you could keep using that and then run Linux on your main computer. But in practice, I don't actually know if Linux support for iPad management is up to snuff.
I'm sure there's some kind of experimental driver support at least, but it has to actually be good.
You're probably not wrong. If you're looking at a new Macbook maybe there's at least good odds you already don't care about touch? In which case, it's not a bad idea to at least think about Linux, especially since you're already familiar with more than a few of the command line conventions.
But no, touch screens are what I meant. There's also a scenario where someone is moving away from Mac specifically because they're looking at convertibles like a Surface Book. Maybe before this point they were doing drawing on an iPad, or a wacom tablet. Apple had and still has a huge userbase of artists.
Say that you're one of those artists trying to transition to (opinion me) a superior hardware medium for doing artwork, where you have more control over buying hardware brands you think will be reliable or flexible or portable, and where you can get the advantages of running a full-fledged OS on your tablet. You can buy a PC convertible and install Linux on it. But you won't be happy with how Linux runs on those devices (also opinion me).
Krita does support pinch-to-zoom and it can distinguish between your stylus and your finger, which admittedly puts it above most other Linux drawing apps. But it does not (as far as I can find anywhere) support touch rotation. This makes it suboptimal for most tablets, especially mounted ones.
Driver support is great, but driver support is not the problem for any Linux touch interface, that's been a solved issue for some time - the applications need to catch up to the usability level of stuff like Clip Studio. I fully expect that it will happen some day, but probably not for a while.
That being said, thanks for the suggestion, I really appreciate it. I'm still running Linux on my drawing tablet, I'm just putting up with everything that comes with it. If you had managed to find an app that had slipped past me when I was testing all of this stuff, you would have just made my tablet experience way better.
You're right on driver support vs application support. There also aren't a lot of new applications in this space. I've been looking for a note taking/diagramming app with both stylus and touch support that will function as "a better piece of paper" in terms of being able to rotate and zoom on an infinite canvas; put down variable lines, grids, and dot grids; easily select and move or resize content; and I've been pretty disappointed by the offerings.
I think the use case is a little esoteric in our community, I've been seriously thinking about trying my hand at creating an application to address my needs when I get some downtime from my contract work.
Desktop Linux has a few problems for a power user IMO.
Docking support is pretty awkward IME.
Multimonitor support is also "rough" to say the least.
They're pretty bad with touch/styluses.
Multi-GPU (while I'm against multiple system GPUs) support is problematic.
Power usage is also inferior, which bothers me as I prefer things greener than not, if possible. Not to mention the inconvenience.
If you're just utilizing a laptop like one would in the 80s or 90s, no problem at all, I agree. If you're trying to push the limits, hook up 3 monitors and expect it to "just work" or worse, "keep working" once you set it up.. dock/undock, use a stylus on the screen. Anything beyond firing up a terminal and a browser? Hasn't ever worked well for me. I prefer Windows10 from everything else, but also don't mind macOS (though it's similarly limited like desktop Linux is) and for a distro to just reach for and install, Linux Mint was impressive for usability. Antergos was my rolling distro goto but I prefer Mint's model of Ubuntu LTS but with continual updates to fix bugs. Constant rolling updates is not good IMO and neither is a (largely) code-frozen Ubuntu LTS release. Linux Mint nails the sweet spot there.
But yeah, other than Linux Mint, I can't really use it with how much I demand out of my machines. I consider myself a power user but I don't want to dig into the X11 codebase ever again when I have other things to take care of, some of that code hasn't been touched in 20 years (and that's a bad thing, because much needs updated).
They are. But so are a few PC lines. For my money, the ThinkPad T480 hits the sweet spot--the keyboard is reminiscent of the older rMBPs (but a little more throw, it seems), with a good-enough touchpad and enough battery life to last basically as long as I could ever see needing it.
(I'm not a fan of the XPS 13 or 15; the keyboard is a little clicky and the touchpad is not good.)
I have last years T470P (the i7-7700HQ/2560x1440@14" model) and it's phenomenally good with 32GB of RAM and an m2 SSD it screams, enough that I delayed my new development desktop at home from July last year til Ryzen 2 next year.
I can’t subscribe to that. It’s ok, but it still requires permanent hand holding. Stuff randomly breaks with updates, for example since the last update I can’t scan any more. I also can’t print any more on my networked printer that’s connected to my mac server.
I've spent a lot of time reading reviews over Lenovo, HP and Dell. Honestly, I wouldn't touch any of them. You can get good stuff from them, but they want the same money as you'd pay to Apple, and I don't believe overall any of those have the build quality Apple offers. And, these sorts of flaky issues affect them equally or more. I know that's not popular to say, but it's the truth.
Apple or Samsung is what I've come to. Of the Macbooks, I prefer the MPB13 non-touchbar, it not only misses the touchbar but also has no dGPU for increased reliability. It's just the simple sort of design that I tend to go for and it's solid. But if you don't like that, then take a look at the Samsung 9 Pro. They're available at Best Buy and have the traditional "good price per specs" PC argument going for them (I'll take build quality over specs anyday but that's just me), but reviews and teardowns all give me a ton of confidence in them. They also have the SPen and 2-in-1 capability which is a pretty nice value add. In my experience, Dell/HP/Lenovo never did figure out how to build a good laptop in 30 years, and given the latest Dell XPS reviews, they aren't going to start now. Lenovo's decline is more recent, after the IBM divestiture of course.
I'm sure no one is going to like this, everyone thinks something like a Lenovo X220 with Ubuntu is the only way to go, but I actually prefer Windows 10 to both macOS and desktop Linux (though I have a place in my heart for Linux Mint for sure and I quite liked Antergos for a rolling distro when I used it). With the Samsung 9 Pro, it's almost guaranteed to lose the SPen features if you insist on avoiding Windows not to mention harming the battery life.
>You can get good stuff from them, but they want the same money as you'd pay to Apple, and I don't believe overall any of those have the build quality Apple offers. And, these sorts of flaky issues affect them equally or more. I know that's not popular to say, but it's the truth.
How much time did/do you spend reading and fiddling? If I knew setting up a machine (incl. picking hardware parts) is no hassle, I would build myself a desktop. For now I’m holding out for a new Mac mini.
Not the OP, but I had a hackintosh awhile back, and it (obviously) wasn’t as easy as a Ubuntu install, but it wasn’t a complete pain in the ass either. After it was installed, most everything worked as good as it does on my macbook. The only annoying thing I encountered were OS updates, because installing them normally would more than likely break the install.
The OSX86 Project[1] is pretty much all you’ll need for instructions for getting a hackintosh setup running. And if you’re interested in building one from scratch, the OSX86 Project lists compatible hardware so you can know what you’re buying will work.
If you don’t mind having to do a bit of reading and tinkering to get it working, it’s a solid way to be able to use OS X on non-Apple hardware. But, if you’d rather have something you can just install and forget, you’re better off just installing your favorite Linux distro, or buying a Mac.
My Hackintoshes take usually 3 days to set up 100% working; mostly issues with setting up Intel HD/NVidia and HDMI/DP audio properly. Obviously I do some research before buying hardware about the success of other people; some machines like most Intel NUCs or ASUS ZenBooks work flawlessly, sometimes even better than with Linux (which is my primary OS). On all Hackintoshes I have Linux, W7, W10 and macOS. Sometimes I have to buy Broadcom WiFi/BT PCIe module and replace Intel one. Frankly, getting W7 running on newer hardware (hello Threadripper!) is sometimes more difficult than installing macOS...
I wonder why apple doesn't allow or support Linux? I would happily buy a Mac pro (trashcan) or a mbp if it had solid Linux support. I think their hardware is awesome. But I have no interest in learning MacOS. The dealbreaker for me is no ctrl key in the corner
I wonder why apple doesn't allow or support Linux?
I wonder if it might be possible somehow under Boot Camp. Or if on a machine as beefy as a Mac Pro if a VM would be good enough. I don't know enough about either to say definitively.
The dealbreaker for me is no ctrl key in the corner
What do you mean by "allow"? If the boot isn't restricted to signed OS X and Windows, you are "allowed". I've installed it easily on several older (2007-2010) Macs.
The reason they don't support it is likely because there's not the demand among their customer base, as most people who want a GNU/Linux OS on a laptop go for Thinkpad or Dell due to better compatibility and other reasons.
Bit surprised I'm saying this, but consider a System76 machine. Their laptops are still badge-engineered Clevos, but reports indicate the build and component quality of recent Clevo laptops has gone up.
