You are both stretching the parenting analogy too far and not far enough at the same time.
I liked my kids, even though they both had special needs and we're often difficult to deal with. Similarly, I generally enjoy talking with people. I don't want to deal with abusive nastiness, but I also don't expect everything to go perfectly smoothly all the time. Communication is a process.
I like talking about social phenomenon. I enjoy talking about group dynamics and group culture.
I see a lot of harm in just saying "Not my problem. They just need to know how to behave." A lot of people grew up in crappy households where people don't know how to be civil. If we aren't willing to talk to them until they learn to be civil, they have no opportunity to learn to be civil. If everyone is as intolerant as you, then some people are basically headed to jail with no hope of redemption because they grew up poor, were possibly abused and never learned manners.
I think about this a lot: How do we help the most unfortunate in society to have a shot at joining the ranks of the privileged? And I think one baseline thing that works is we talk with them, we engage them in a civil and mutually respectful fashion and we help them learn what that looks like.
There is an excellent detail in the movie Dangerous Minds where a kid goes to the principal's office and the principal throws him out and won't discuss his issue with him because he burst in without knocking. The boy ends up dead.
Some people are in constant crisis. They are ill or being beaten by their spouse or struggling to get enough to eat. Trying to be adequately well mannered to engage in polite society is a real challenge. And many privileged people will cut them out because of it.
You aren't required to be one of the people willing to talk with those who are failing to be polished. But you are free to do that without pissing on the idea that this is how we create a civil culture. I don't understand why you feel compelled to shoot the suggestion down. To my mind, it is an argument that advocates that anyone who wasn't born into privilege is not welcome to try to shoot for a better life by getting online and trying to talk with polished people even though they lack polish themselves.
The internet is the best way for the Haves and Have Nots to mingle. You don't need enough money to dress properly. You don't need enough money to hang out in the right places, like the local country club. You can be dirt poor and still talk to those who know how to get things done.
I would hate to see more of your attitude in the world. When I was homeless, I was treated quite abusively on Metafilter by privileged people who like to brag about what good people they are, making the world a better place. I still am quite angry about that and I hope some of those people burn in hell. It makes me have some sympathy for people who go postal and kill a bunch of people.
The insistence that you aren't welcome unless you are capable of fitting in from the start is an insidious form of classism that is actively harmful to people who have any kind of serious personal problem. I feel that anyone who genuinely wants to see some of the serious problems in the world resolved should eschew such a policy.
I liked my kids, even though they both had special needs and we're often difficult to deal with. Similarly, I generally enjoy talking with people. I don't want to deal with abusive nastiness, but I also don't expect everything to go perfectly smoothly all the time. Communication is a process.
I like talking about social phenomenon. I enjoy talking about group dynamics and group culture.
I see a lot of harm in just saying "Not my problem. They just need to know how to behave." A lot of people grew up in crappy households where people don't know how to be civil. If we aren't willing to talk to them until they learn to be civil, they have no opportunity to learn to be civil. If everyone is as intolerant as you, then some people are basically headed to jail with no hope of redemption because they grew up poor, were possibly abused and never learned manners.
I think about this a lot: How do we help the most unfortunate in society to have a shot at joining the ranks of the privileged? And I think one baseline thing that works is we talk with them, we engage them in a civil and mutually respectful fashion and we help them learn what that looks like.
There is an excellent detail in the movie Dangerous Minds where a kid goes to the principal's office and the principal throws him out and won't discuss his issue with him because he burst in without knocking. The boy ends up dead.
Some people are in constant crisis. They are ill or being beaten by their spouse or struggling to get enough to eat. Trying to be adequately well mannered to engage in polite society is a real challenge. And many privileged people will cut them out because of it.
You aren't required to be one of the people willing to talk with those who are failing to be polished. But you are free to do that without pissing on the idea that this is how we create a civil culture. I don't understand why you feel compelled to shoot the suggestion down. To my mind, it is an argument that advocates that anyone who wasn't born into privilege is not welcome to try to shoot for a better life by getting online and trying to talk with polished people even though they lack polish themselves.
The internet is the best way for the Haves and Have Nots to mingle. You don't need enough money to dress properly. You don't need enough money to hang out in the right places, like the local country club. You can be dirt poor and still talk to those who know how to get things done.
I would hate to see more of your attitude in the world. When I was homeless, I was treated quite abusively on Metafilter by privileged people who like to brag about what good people they are, making the world a better place. I still am quite angry about that and I hope some of those people burn in hell. It makes me have some sympathy for people who go postal and kill a bunch of people.
The insistence that you aren't welcome unless you are capable of fitting in from the start is an insidious form of classism that is actively harmful to people who have any kind of serious personal problem. I feel that anyone who genuinely wants to see some of the serious problems in the world resolved should eschew such a policy.