Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

I don't think people are being unreasonable by being unhappy with a $40 toll. The way the article words it, solo drivers all of a sudden saw a $40 toll where they previously had no permission to drive at all.

What actually happened was that people were expecting to see a $6 toll be put in place and instead saw a $40. Imagine going to McDonald's where your friend told you that you could get a Filet o' Fish for $1 but when you get there you find out that McDonald's was charging $5. You'd be mad. You still have the option to not buy the sandwich, but it went contrary to your expectations.

So the article is correct, but I don't think they fully accounted for the fact that people had already been told to expect something else. The article mentioned it, but then goes and talks like people are being unreasonably frustrated for tolls that were completely unexpected.




The other aspect is that politicians simply didn't communicate the nuance - the toll exists to LIMIT access, it will be as high as necessary to keep traffic flowing.

People understood the clear division that existed prior to tolling - the separate lanes were for commuters that had a lower environmental and traffic impact, and people that had to catch a flight. A price tag reframes the problem in terms of access to a paid service... and everyone expects to be able to afford access to public infrastructure.


where they previously had no permission to drive at all.

I think this is where it's getting hung up. The signage and all other road markings on I-66 did not give a solo driver the overwhelming impression that they did not have "permission" to drive on those roads. Compounding this is that it was/is only during certain portions of the day.

As an example, if I go onto the Dulles or Loudoun county toll roads, it's explicitly clear with toll booths etc... that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON THIS ROAD WITHOUT PAYING. Similar around the country on other toll roads.

If all access is just as easy as any other road and there is no enforcement mechanism (save the odd example of someone you know getting a ticket) or overbearing signage (like on the 495 EZPass lanes) then naturally people would assume it's just like any other "free" highway.

I think DC has a unique driving culture around this and slugging that unless you are just a total stickler for the rules is largely a grab bag game.


Definitely unique. I've never lived in DC but visited a few times for work and was flabbergasted when I heard about slug lines (I still am). It's a bad driving situation when you'll voluntarily get into a stranger's car, and drivers will just let random strangers in their car. That doesn't happen in any of the cities I've lived in.


They do this in the SF Bay area, it's called casual carpool. Very popular in the East Bay. I used to do it for many years, both as a driver and passenger. It's all about getting past the Bay Bridge toll plaza, and the carpool lane goes way faster than the (sometimes horribly) backed up traffic. The FastTrac lanes aren't any good when it gets so backed up.

Yes there are myriad unspoken rules, and hilarious stories about when they are flagrantly violated. But over the years I've had some great rides, met some wonderful people, discovered some new music, and generally enjoyed the experience of intermixing with fellow humanity in a random but mutually beneficial way.


Can't you have that experience every day using BART?


Walking to the nearest casual carpool pickup spot is closer & faster to city for most people vs walk/walk+bus to BART.

Regarding the mixing with humanity point, I think you'd agree sharing a car is a tad more intimate than sharing a sardine-packed train car.


An acquaintance I know has been going to work via a slug line for more than 10 years. It's impressive that it is reliable enough for getting to a day job. There are even unwritten rules you're supposed to follow and so on when in someone else's car.

Now I guess with Lyft and Uber it might seem less strange being in someone else's car these days. But before I can see how it would look totally weird for someone from out of town.


At Microsoft in the 90s people would swoop by the bus stops to pick up bodies on Fridays for the HOV lanes home.


> Imagine going to McDonald's where your friend told you that you could get a Filet o' Fish for $1 but when you get there you find out that McDonald's was charging $5. You'd be mad.

Yes. At my friend, for being wrong, and for suggesting I eat a Filet o' Fish. I wouldn't be mad at McDonald's.


That the toll is significantly higher than a Metro fare is a feature, not a bug.


You did if you were driving a hybrid vehicle. You went from free to $40.


The issue is this: being banned is a certainty, the decision is simple; being asked to pay a variable price, once you go there as a captive (you're already chosen to take that road, say) is forcing you into an uninformed decision. Of course people would be pissed, what's hard to understand?




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: