Ask YC: Where are the open source consumer web apps?

[nonrecursive]

On the front page right now is an article about DimDim, the first open source consumer web app I've heard of. ("Consumer" is meant to distinguish this type of app from something like ActiveCollab, which is also an open source web app but which is meant to be installed by the user on his own server). Are there any other good ones out there?

As opposed to open source desktop apps, web apps don't generally require any advanced computer knowledge. There's no compiling, no installing mac ports, etc. This seems like making an open source web app would be that much more fun and rewarding, because so many more people would be able to use it.

Have any of you considered making an open source web app? For awhile I've been toying with the idea of building a text-based team death match game, perhaps using MUD scripts. I think it would really make the game fun to add a graphic interface so that it could easily be played on an iPhone just by quickly tapping the screen. It'd be fun to work with other folks on it, and fun to be able to implement player/programmer additions. Will this kind of open source work become more prevalent?

edit: The first couple comments have been, basically, "What the hell are you talking about?"

DimDim seems different in a crucial way from open source web apps like shopping carts, blogging software, and project management tools (Trac, ActiveCollab). With DimDim, the open source product is of primary concern to the site's users, anyone is free to use the product, and the product appeals to a wider swath of humanity. On the other hand, users aren't primarily concerned with what shopping cart a site uses (the primary concern is buying something) or what blogging system a site uses (the primary concern is the content). Projects like Trac generally are installed to be used primarily by a select group of people, and they appeal to fewer people.

Another difference: DimDim exists only at dimdim.com . The project is not about providing other people with the means of creating their own web meeting site; it's about being THE open source web meeting site. Another way of explaining this is that Reddit is a web application, while there are also many "make your own reddit" kits which are also web applications. DimDim is more like reddit.com than a "make your own reddit" web app.

Hopefully this clarifies the distinction. Maybe someone else could explain it succinctly.

[wheels]

Huh? There are huge numbers of open source web apps. Most blogging software, webmail software, web-shop software, ...

[nonrecursive → wheels]

I've updated the original post. Hopefully it clarifies what I'm referring to. (I'm not referring to blogging software, webmail software, etc. :)

[wheels → nonrecursive]

I still don't really get it though. Wikipedia, Sourceforge, Slashdot, etc. are all major open source applications with an authoritative host and are user-oriented.

[nonrecursive → wheels]

Ah ok. Well that helps answer my question :) I didn't realize those were all open source.

Aside from Wikipedia, do you know of any other web apps that appeal to people outside the geek population?

[tjr → nonrecursive]

photo.net runs atop the ArsDigita Community System, also open source. It's not quite a plug-n-play solution, but a good number of websites are/were run on ACS.

[Tichy → nonrecursive]

I still don't get it. Quote: "DimDim is more like reddit.com", so to explain how DimDim is different from a web app like reddit, you say that it is like reddit. No, sorry, I really don't understand ;-)

[CRASCH]

I think what you are trying to say when you say "Why aren't there more open source web applications?" is something like "Why aren't there more web application sites that provide a service that are open source?"

This I think is pretty simple. If I got your question right. If you are building a new site that does rss feeds aggregation with dynamic custom filters that track your web surfing to automatically rate content based on pages you spent time on, for example. Wow that was a mouthful. Err. Forget that. If you are building a better reddit.You have some new idea and that is your competitive edge and reason for doing the work. If you open source that you just gave away your reason for building your site.

So there is a conscious decision to either build a site and try to monetize it, or build an open source platform and gain traction. The difference here is what you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to differentiate a site with new technology or features you don't want to give away the secret sauce (source) to your incumbent competitors or your future competitors. While your busy focusing on and perfecting the technology. They can be busy focusing on getting to market.

If google or ebay had open sourced their technology how hard would it be for Microsoft or Amazon to clone it and take it to the next level? If we use google as an example here. If microsoft could see exactly how page rank worked and the architecture that allows google to scale. Could they create their own version and possibly improve it. I think they could. If google open sourced in the beginning super live search would have happened before google got their ridiculous market share and google may not even exist today...

[mhartl]

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I've long been as baffled as you are about why there aren't more. I pitched this idea to a bunch of people at RailsConf last year, and got a lot of yawns. I even pitched it to Peter Norvig of Google, who checked his watch and then "had to go". :-) But I predict open-source webapps will be big.

What's your contact info? I couldn't find it in your HN profile. (Mine's in mine.)

[axod → mhartl]

How can they be big? What's the revenue model for an open source webapp? I don't get it...

You create some cool app, then some big player takes it as it's open source, installs it, and laughs in your face :/

Once you've established your own site as 'the leader' like wikipedia, then open sourcing would probably work fine. But open sourcing from the start seems a bad idea...

[mhartl → axod]

Maybe, but the same argument could be used for other open-source apps. "Oracle could just grab the source code for MySQL", etc.

Incidentally, this is one reason the GPL can be a big win. What you described happened to X, which was under the MIT license. It worries me that so many web technologies are MIT; it's so much easier to co-opt them.

There is a web version of the GPL called the AGPL (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html). It's a pity it's not more widely known.

[edu]

http://meneame.net is spanish digg clone (trolls included) which is licensed under the Affero GPL: http://svn.meneame.net/index.cgi/branches/version2/

[crayz]

Scoop, the software behind Kuro5hin and later DailyKos and many other 'community' social blog/news sites

[notauser → crayz]

Slashcode (Slashdot's engine) has been open source for so long it's written in perl :). There is also MediaWiki (Wikipedia).

[noodle]

i have to be misreading your comment, because there are about three hundred zillion open source web apps.

could you clarify?

[astine]

Sourceforge mostly.