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Wait, so you're saying censoring creationist and anti-vaccine sites is acceptable too? That's precisely the slippery slope your interlocutor is referring to.

You are far from an "acolyte for the cult of free speech" if think ideas you disagree with should be kicked out of the bazaar by mobs.




I re-read what I wrote, and I believe I was clear.

Here is my statement

> , in the face of people intentionally releasing material designed to hijack human brains via emotion.

And then later

> They aren't debating Marxism or porn. They're trying to drown out other ideas, and to tie Down people who present cogent counter arguments.

>Want a non tech example? Take a look at anti vacc or creationism.

How you went from there, to

>Wait, so you're saying censoring creationist and anti-vaccine sites is acceptable too?

I am not sure.

SO let me re-iterate my main point.

The battle being fought right now, is between people who are using techniques to stymie actual discussion and actual trade of ideas.

The idea is to "hack" the human brain, to target emotions, logical errors, rhetoric and so on, and to then build a block of people who can be counted to work together.

The active target is free speech itself, science, and so called "liberal" values, which is now just a label for an ever expanding field of targets.

You want to look at creationism and anti vacc to study how those non factual ideas were propagated.

Remember that these ideas won in the country which had the greatest claim to carrying the torch of civilization and science.

You look at those topics for study, not censorship.

You then understand the techniques used once you study those topics.

Once you do that, you realize that this is not about free speech, and that nothign in free speech can really deal with what is happening.


If you're "not sure" that censoring creationist or anti-vaccine sites is acceptable, then at the very least you cannot claim in any way, shape or form to be anything close to a "free speech acolyte". That is clear.

Free speech is not contingent on the subject that is being "targeted" -- science, liberal values, or even the concept of free speech itself (if challenged merely by speech). Free speech is simply the right to speak your views, no matter how unpopular, illiberal or radical. The proper response to speech you disagree with is: more speech. As soon as you designate certain speech as dangerous, "brain hacking" speech that we need to censor for the sake of "civilization and science," you begin sliding down the slippery slope into censoring stuff like creationism.

The correct way to respond to creationism, and Nazi ideas, is by explaining how wrong they are. And that means that unpopular Leftist ideas (of which I am a subscriber), as "dangerous" as they may be to some, also get their forum in the bazaar.


So you are where I was a decade ago.

I've already applied those ideas, "more speech". We've seen it repeated on so many forums now, so many subreddits a year, that the follow up pattern is already known.

It sadly doesnt work.

You can hold your view all you like mate, but in the end - its just a theory.

And do you honestly think, you are special and the only forum moderator, or forum attacker to NOT know those theories?

Really?

This isn't undiscovered country. Its just undiscovered for you.

Read what I have written.

As for your specific charge against dealing with Creationism.

1) why the hell are you fixated on creationism? are you some sort of free speech bouncer? Unless I wear the colors and say "I shall protect Creationism, even though I don't agree with it", you won't listen to me?

2) Creationism is REGULARLY debunked. In mass media, on forums, everywhere.

It makes no whit of difference to its target audience. Studies show that showing counteracting information often results in those views becoming EVEN MORE entrenched.

People debunking creationism can easily walk into a discussion - expecting that it will be a discussion.

Instead its a Specatcle, in the old Roman sense of the word - The opposite side hits them with a technicality "You can't explain all of evolution. See! theres even a debate among scientists on evolution!"

Which the antagonists then spin into "Teach the controversy!".

How can you have speech, when the other side never intended to speak in the first place?

3) WHy stop at creationism? What about jihadist recuritment material? What about JIhadist material explaining the pain they suffer, and the good reasons (according to them) they have for killing infidels?

4) What about libel? What about Laws against subliminal advertizing for that matter?

And here are some real life scenarios for you to answer -

What are you going to do when you get DDOSed? What do you do when the forum gets over run or brigaded?

What do you do when the people making speech are targeted and harassed, and thus removed from the discussion?

What do you do when people use the forum rules like lawyers, and tie forum mods into knots in order to make space for hate speech?

What do you do when experts enter a discussion, but the other side uses it as an opportunity to go "YOU CANT EXPLAIN EXTREMELY COMPLEX SUBJECT IN 2 SENTENCES! SEE THEY ARE FRAUDS!"




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