+1 for `pass`. I wrote a handy Bash script [1] that lets me easily search my passwords without having an exact match (e.g., `fpass fin cap one` quickly finds my password info for "Financial/CapitalOne.gpg"). It makes pulling up passwords so much easier as I only need to remember fragments of how I stored it instead of trying to remember exact folders and names using auto-complete to find the password.
I also use iTerm2's system-wide hotkey [2] to quickly show/hide a dedicated terminal window that I use for retrieving passwords.
I've been using this setup for years now and I absolutely love it. The only downside is no access from my phone, but I always have my laptop with me and I memorize passwords that I frequently use.
On Android, I use Password Store to sync my `pass` directory and use it from the phone. It a very high quality app, I had no issues after years of usage.
I think I'm currently in a minimalist phase; the KeePassX UI is too feature rich and cluttered and makes me want to configure everything but I don't want to manage that.
If that's not a problem for you, KeePassX is definitely a solid password manager!
Don't need omz for autocomplete, it's already there in zsh. I TBH don't really like omz. It feels bloated, and I don't really need anything else on top of the already-awesome zsh.
Instead of hiding the window, why don't you look into using terminal colors to hide the password? That way the passwords aren't visible until you highlight them.
Neither are deal breakers for me, but I get issues with their plugins sometimes.
The deal breaker for me before vs 1PW was that I would store quite a bit of info in 1PW for some logins. Filling out a whole sign up form might include birthday security question/answer, name, and more. For various reasons, I don't always use real info so having this info automatically saved or easily added as new fields is great. I know Lastpass has a few extra field options and a notes section within each login, but the fields aren't enough and I don't want to have to manually add all the info into the notes like some people I know do. I'd rather pay a few dollars more a month and get the convenience and time saved.
I'm sure it makes up for the extra ~$25 a year. And the family plan at $60 a year for up to 5 family members isn't a bad deal in my opinion either if that can work for you. I know it sucks compared to buying the apps one time, but I don't feel it is as bad the outcry was/still is.
I guess I'm looking at this strictly in terms of what is best for my day to day life. It's not worth it worrying about a few extra dollars a month when I only have a handful of subscriptions as it is.
1Password is the only commercial password manager I recommend, but I'll go further than that when it comes to LastPass and say: I really think you should avoid LastPass, and, if you're using it, migrate to something else.
Why do the trouble of replying but fail to explain your reasons? That's wasting your own time mostly.
I would recommend 1password over lastpass as well. First reason being the security issues of lastpass chrome extension. Though claimed it is fixed now they have claimed before on other issues only to be proven wrong after. I simply don't trust them anymore with my data.
But even more I would choose 1password over its usability. I used lastpass before but switched during the past few security issues reported. I have never looked back. 1Password is much better integrated in your mobile devices. The app feels more robust and is easier to operate. In addition the whole process of setting up your devices felt easier and more secure using 1password.
Second. My wife understands it which is a big plus. She doesn't complain anymore about the cumbersome lastpass. We keep a shared vault as well. That alone is worth every penny and maybe the only reason I keep with a commercial password manager. I don't think she will use the alternatives.
I would strongly advice you to at least try it. It claims to be able to import your lastpass though personally I didn't try as my lastpass was a bit of a mess.
Because an advice without argument is ignored (in many cases). If it were me I would have rephrased my comment to include a summary. That would be sufficient to understand why you said things and in addition would be perceived less cocky. Now it came over as I'm saying this and you are not worth my time explaining the arguments.
Apparently you have knowledge on the subject so a sentence or five would have helped everybody reading this thread. In fact, it is what I would expect from an HN comment. I usually read the comments before the article as on HN there is often more information than the actual article. Most often different sides of the coin are in enlightened in the comments bringing insight in the otherwise one-sided monologue in the article.
I understand why you don't want to go digging up information to link, especially if using a phone. In this case, I think sharing a little truth about LastPass may benefit our community.
If it's too much for a content, how about a link to a source that articulates your point? I'm sure many people would appreciate more complete information.
I suspect the reluctance to offer more than a brief recommendation isn't a lack of confidence in the argument, but rather a sensible level of restraint for someone who is in the security industry.
It doesn't matter whether he does or not. He's using your own argument against you. Stepping in here and saying, "don't worry guys I'm the expert, so don't ask any questions", is just pompous and doesn't actually convince anybody. Use logic to support your claims, not your resume.
It's funny. When I was the GP comment I thought "well that's not a very useful comment". Now that I've paid attention to who the author is... I'm getting concerned about LastPass :)
Are you able to say why you aren't willing to go in to details? I respect your CV and am going to switch to 1Password from LastPass based on your comment, but I'm curious whether I need to be concerned about my information being compromised.
Switched from pass to gopass recently :
(https://github.com/justwatchcom/gopass). It's open source and has a tad bit more features over pass. Some of the reasons for my choice to switch:
- compatible with pass
- support for multiple stores
- store binary data (e.g. QR codes for seeding 2FA) : upcoming
- report / track issues on github.com/justwatchcom/gopass/issues
fun fact: 2FA QR codes contain the secret as just part of a url. you don't need to save the binary image, just figure out what the (usually base32-encoded) secret value is, and store that. google authentcator lets you type in the base32-encoded secret (useful if your phone's camera is broken). see e.g. https://garbagecollected.org/2014/09/14/how-google-authentic...
My main reason to not use pass is that I can't allow multiple private keys to unlock the password store. I don't want to transfer my private key between all my machines.
In your .gpg-id file, simply list the keys you want to encrypt for on separate lines. Every file below that .gpg-id file in the directory hierarchy will be encrypted for any of those keys to unlock.
Also you can re-init any time you want, listing multiple keys. This will go through all your passwords and re-encrypt them for each of the keys listed. That's how I got my phone set up with access (with its own locally-generated private key).
If you want more granular key strategy, look at gopass [1], which is a pass-compatible binary that gives a little more granular control over key usage (IIRC), and is written in Go.
I use KeePassXC [1], which is open-source, and I sync it across my iPhone, Windows laptop, and Linux desktop via Tresorit [2] (like Dropbox but end-to-end encrypted). It's secured with a password that I know, and a keyfile that I have. I don't sync the keyfile and always manually transfer to new computers.
I also use Arq [3] to automatically backup to S3 every hour, and I also do manual backup to my external backup drives once in a while.
I recently did a bunch of research into password managers, and went with Keepassxc as well. I'm using Syncthing to sync the password archive across Linux, Mac, Android, and Windows devices. The whole setup is working very well and is all open source.
I don't, and wouldn't, use dropbox or any other non-free non-self-hosted system to manage the storage or synchronisation of my secure data, so it's unison(rsync) and/or ssh'd between desktop and laptop.
Why not use dropbox? It is only used for sync databases, not access them,
I always though if someone found my keypass database encrypted it would be useless.
Yeah, the KeePass database is encrypted and I secure it with both password and keyfile, but I still want something that won't leave my database "out there" available for bruteforce attempts or other attempts at it.
It's hardly "out there" though. A hacker would still need to hack dropbox before they could access your keepass db and begin brute forcing. What makes your own private server more secure than dropbox's network?
What is the cause for your paranoia about keeping your keyfile in your Dropbox? I have used and advocated this model for years with no ill effects.
My Dropbox is secured by MFA, with the Dropbox password itself being a random password within the KeePass keyfile. I store the whole Keepass program for Windows inside the same Dropbox account, feel free to indicate that as a security gap. On mobile I use the KeePass2Android app.
You meant the kdbx file right? not the separate keyfile you can use to secure the kdbx file with.
I think the feeling is the same as the feeling of just leaving your SSH private key "out there". Sure, it's protected with a passphrase, but I still don't want to do that.
Some people will not be satisfied so long as the keyfile, KDBX, and password reside in the same version of our shared reality, as it's still mathematically possible to decode the numbers into something they personally value.
I use the standard keepass 2 client on my windoes machines, and keepass2android on my phone. Clients only access the file via ssh to my server at home so it doesn't require storing the database on other machines.
master_password = some master password that you never write or store anywhere
domain = domain name for the service in question, e.g. 'facebook.com'
n = the nth password being generated for the domain (typically 0)
The 'Aa$1' is to ensure satisfaction of stupid password rules on various websites.
Advantages:
- Open source. You don't have to use some random person's password manager software that you have no clue how or where the passwords are being stored or the trustability of the people who wrote the software.
- Portability. You can run this on any OS including a phone with a Python implementation, and it's pretty easy to port the above to any other language with a hash library.
- No files to lose. You don't need to worry about losing a password manager's database, you don't need to worry about syncing the database across machines, and you can compute the above on any machine that you own and trust. Kernel panics while you're on vacation? No worries! Reformat your PC with a fresh Ubuntu install and compute the above to get access to your bank account, plane tickets, and e-mail again.
I used to do something very similar to this, for around 5 years. It works fairly well, but I've moved away from it largely because: There are always exceptions that won't work (you can't have one scheme that both satisfies "you must have one special character" and "you cannot have any special characters"), and it also doesn't let you change your password for a site. I was able to come up with something that worked in 95% of the cases, it was the 5% that got me to stop using it.
The counter only addresses requirements to change password periodically. The special character requirement is addressed by tacking on 'Aa$1' to all passwords (they asked for it; it's what I tacked to all the (good) passwords I memorized even before I had this method).
I consider this far better than having to keep a password manager's database. n = 0 for the vast majority of sites without sensitive personal data. For the small handful that need to change, I usually sync them all to the same value of n about once or twice a year.
> - Not well-integrated with browsers.
I use Chrome's password-saving feature for websites that don't store sensitive personal data. For websites that I consider sensitive, I actually like that it isn't integrated with the browser.
> - Far less convenience on a phone.
This is true. If my laptop can act as a bluetooth keyboard to my phone it might make life easier.
The problem with this solution is that it is only as strong as your master password. Because you suggest to 'never write or store [it] anywhere' it can't be strong enough. To say it in Bruce Schneier's words: "Pretty much anything that can be remembered can be cracked."[1]
I memorized 1024 digits of pi in high school. I can deal with a strong password.
Keep in mind that most password managers also encrypt your password database with your master password, so my solution isn't any worse than those.
Memorizing a even a 16-character (upper/lower + symbols) random string as your master password would be 16*6 = 96 bits of entropy which is more than enough.
Dealing with memorizing ONE good 16-character random string is within the abilities of most people. Dealing with multiple ones is what is hard.
I don't question your memory, that is not my point. How long do you think it takes to crack a password that consists of digits of Pi or anything derived from it? And it's not about Pi either, it's just that you can't beat a computer in that regard.
For me, playing around with hashcat, was an eye opening experience and I truly believe in the Schneier quote from above.
Create a 10 word diceware passphrase, using the EFF's list. Try to memorize it, it shouldn't take long. Hash it with whatever hash you like. Even MD5. Try to crack it with Haschat. Spend as much time and/or money as you like on the project. It's got over 128 bits of entropy, you won't succeed before the Sun becomes a red giant and incinerates the Earth.
I agree with Schneier's quote, but you're also forgetting about password hashing. If it takes 10 seconds to derive the key (assuming the use of a strong hash function), anything with a good enough amount of entropy (60-90 bits) should be fine.
When an attacker acquires a leaked database, they're not cracking high entropic passwords.
Yes, what speaks for dheera's method is the use of a strong KDF and especially (a point that I missed initially) that they use a truly random master password.
The standard password manager is slightly better because the password database works like a 2nd factor.
Also, a character has at most 8 bits of entropy, not 64. If you use base 64 its only 6 bits of entropy. 16 x 6 = 96 bits is still more than enough though.
A downside if everyone used this scheme would be parallelized attacks on reversing the hash for the key. If you find a key that, with this scheme, creates a password for your service, you found the corresponding secret key. This then compromises all of that users passwords.
Sorry early morning here, I actually fixed that before I saw your comment -- more like 6 bits per character. In any case more than good enough.
I actually am not a fan of 2nd-factor authentication (e.g. phone). If you lose the physical thing or it gets leaked to a stranger, gunman who mugs you, leaked by security holes in the thing's own embedded OS, it's no longer helping your security. I'd rather authentication depend on only what's in my mind and body and nothing external. Also, I lose stuff and forget stuff pretty easily, so I often just avoid carrying anything.
I'm not sure what the various methods are called or what they are -- never really researched it. I just memorized about 10 digits every day over the course of a summer. Every day I practiced typing out the entire thing a few times as well as practiced the most-recent 100-block several more times.
"Pretty much anything that can be remembered can be cracked."
Randomly choose 6 words from a 10k English dictionary and you're set. Hell, make it 12 words. Still insanely easier to remember than a 12 character alphanumeric/symbol password, and much more difficult to crack.
Better yet, use the EFF's Diceware list. It's easy to pick randomly from the list (just roll some dice) and the resulting passphrase won't have some of the issues a dictonary chosen one would have, like compound words causing entropy reductions. (EG if fire, truck, and firetruck are included in the dictionary as 3 separate words and you happen to get fire and truck in sequence as part of your passphrase the entropy of those two words is equivalent to the entropy of a single word! Not good.)
> if fire, truck, and firetruck are included in the dictionary as 3 separate words and you happen to get fire and truck in sequence as part of your passphrase the entropy of those two words is equivalent to the entropy of a single word
Not exactly true if they are separate words. In a word-based password scheme, you are treating entire words, not characters, as units. The chance of fire, truck, and firetruck appearing in one password in that sequence, given a 10K word dictionary, is 1/(10K^3). The miniscule possibility of this speaks to the fact that there actually is a large entropy.
"green rubber yellowed out inside the 1st horizon"
I make random passwords like that (though usually 6+ words) all the time. I admit I can't remember all of them, but I can remember up to ten or twelve. Which is enough passwords to cover all the important services I use.
The big pain with that is that some services don't allow more than N characters for passwords (looking at you, 20-characters-limit-PayPal), some services don't allow spaces and whatnot, so you have to adapt.
Plus, you should enable 2FA wherever possible. You don't really need a super strong password once you have 2FA, so for those cases you can resort to OP solution of having "master_password + 'whatever' + domain" with master password being one of those ten you can actually remember and not even having to encrypt the whole thing.
> Deterministic password generators cannot accommodate varying password policies without keeping state
16 characters + 'Aa$1' has universally satisfied every website I have used to date except Baidu (which imposes a maximum of 16 characters total on passwords). The number of exceptions to this is probably miniscule.
> Deterministic password generators cannot handle revocation of exposed passwords without keeping state
That's what 'n' is for. Either you can keep 'n' as a state variable which is much easier to manage (and if you lose the file, you can try a few values of n and get yourself back into those websites without much hassle), OR sync the values of n every several months on the sites that use it.
> Deterministic password managers can’t store existing secrets
This is orthogonal to the password problem. I store sensitive files that aren't passwords in a GPG-encrypted tarball on Dropbox.
> Exposure of the master password alone exposes all of your site passwords
This is true of stateful password managers as well, if you backup your database on anywhere insecure or any device (e.g. laptop) that could potentially be mugged at gunpoint, confiscated by border control, leaked by buggy software, etc.
You shouldn't use hash functions designed for integrity, they're fast, fast is bad for password hashing, a single AMD graphics card can compute 200M guesses per second for single sha-512 iterations, instead use bcrypt, scrypr or any other hash function specifically designed for key stretching.
By the way, for those wondering about convenience, this will wait 3 seconds (during which you switch to your web browser and click the password field) and then it will "type" the password. (You do NOT want to cut-and-paste your password from a terminal as the clipboard can be read by anything.)
# requires: sudo apt-get install xautomation for 'xte'
import time
from subprocess import Popen, PIPE
macro = ""
for char in password:
if char == '$':
macro += "keydown Shift_L\nkey 4\nkeyup Shift_L\n"
elif char == '+':
macro += "keydown Shift_L\nkey equal\nkeyup Shift_L\n"
elif char == '/':
macro += "key slash\n"
elif char.isupper():
macro += "keydown Shift_L\nkey %s\nkeyup Shift_L\n" % char
elif char.islower() or char.isdigit():
macro += "key %s\n" % char
print("Entering password in 3 seconds ... [^C to abort]")
time.sleep(3)
Popen(['xte'], stdin=PIPE).communicate(macro.encode())
One of the biggest drawbacks of this approach is that you are stuck with your master-password. You can't change it without modifying those for all the websites.
I do something similar, but the solution instead of `Aa$1` is to use the output to produce a shorter password with those properties [1]. Makes it a little easier to type in.
I also keep a list of the "domains" along with plaintext comments for each of them (username, email I used, etc) that are not strictly required (so still portable) but just make it a little more useful when it's synced.
The big downside I've found is lack of apps. Sure it would run on any phone, but I haven't managed to get it to run on the phones conveniently. So if I'm without a laptop right now for the most part I'm locked out.
One problem I had when using a similar technique is how to change passwords. Some services require regular password changes, security breaches require it, etc.
So I needed some additional piece of information, namely how many times I've had to change passwords, so a new function argument.
Eventually I gave up and started using a password manager.
That's what 'n' is for in the code above. There are only a small handful of sensitive websites I use that require frequent password changes and I usually sync them all to the same incremented value of n every few months.
Disadvantage: If any website you use has it's password database leaked, an attacker can then do an offline brute force attack to recover your master password. Then, the attacker can then generate your password to every other site you use, such as banks and email, just by trying a couple values of n.
My point is that this is dangerous. The security of this method is equal to the strength of you master password + the least secure website you use. If that website has a password breach, the only thing standing between an attacker and a compromise of every website you use is the strength of you master key. (And GPUs are pretty good at brute forcing PBKDF2 - so it has to be really strong.)
This is unlike a stateful password manager. There the security of the system is related to the strength of your password + the strength of the security of the place you store your password db. If you pick a place that is serious about security, your almost certainly better off. Critically, a compromise of some random forum you signed up for doesn't impact the security of your bank account in any way.
> The security of this method is equal to the strength of you master password + the least secure website you use.
Not exactly. It's equal to the strength of your master password only. Even if one of your passwords leaked, this function does not compute fast enough in the forseeable future to brute force your master password, as long as your master password is strong.
> And GPUs are pretty good at brute forcing PBKDF2 - so it has to be really strong.
Interesting, thanks for telling me this. But how much better? I mean, a GPU with 1024 CUDA cores surely cannot surpass 1024 CPUs. So all we need to do is bump up 100000 to a slightly higher number to make it GPU-proof if that's the case, no?
> There the security of the system is related to the strength of your password + the strength of the security of the place you store your password db. If you pick a place that is serious about security, your almost certainly better off.
The problem is that it's difficult to find some places that is serious, and that you trust to be serious. Most people will end up putting it on Dropbox or Google Drive because there isn't anything else that is accessible to them and easy to use on a phone. Also, what if you're on vacation, PC rendered in an unbootable state, and you need to reinstall your OS? This has happened to me at least 3 times.
> Interesting, thanks for telling me this. But how much better? I mean, a GPU with 1024 CUDA cores surely cannot surpass 1024 CPUs. So all we need to do is bump up 100000 to a slightly higher number to make it GPU-proof if that's the case, no?
The weakness of PBKDF2 is that it requires a small fixed amount of memory to run, making it ideal for brute forcing with a GPU. Algorithms like Scrypt / Argon2 are designed to counter this by requiring lots of memory to run. Best reference I could find or current best GPU brute forcing speed is https://gist.github.com/epixoip/a83d38f412b4737e99bbef804a27... - which seems to say that the test system could do like 100-200k password guesses / sec with PBKDF2-Sha256 @ 100,000 iterations (extrapolating from the numbers given).
I think the idea is that the master password can be memorable enough by picking say 6 random diceware words and still strong enough to resist all (pre-quantum) brute-force attacks for a long time.
The arithmetic then looks like this:
(7776 ^ 6) = 221073919720733357899776, because there are 7776 words in the diceware list.
(7776 ^ 6)/(10^12) = 221073919720 seconds to try all such password if the imagined hardware accelerated hash cracker can do one trillion hashes per second. In years this is:
Yeah, in an ideal world... In the real world I'm coerced to use some apps and websites with shit security, and have to store stuff like PINs &c which impose a certain structure on the secret, and if I'm not misunderstanding, this can't help with that sort of secrets.
By the way it's generally not a good idea to use dates in password generation or for random seeds. An attacker who has any information about the approximate time you generated the password (e.g. minutes before registering for a site) would be able to iterate over those several thousand seconds.
For consumer use cases, you should use sources of noise for this, such as microphone noise, mouse movements, fluctuating voltages, etc. If you wanted to be super-secure you would use a quantum random number generator, which is truly random, but unnecessary for the threat models of most consumer uses. Just use anything but date/time. The random number generators of most modern languages and operating systems already have such measures in place.
Basically their web add-ons are extremely buggy. I was using Firefox and after many issues tried Chrome version, that one looks nicer but is similar POS and similarly had its own set of issues. Perhaps I would be happier if there was just a standalone app that I would only fire up when I need it.
I agree. The browser plugins used to be much cleaner and snappier when I first started using LastPass a few years ago, but it has progressively gotten worse to the point of making the whole thing nearly unusable. It feels like some 4th grader tried to reimplement drop-down menus using a crappy home-made JS framework.
I stayed with LastPass through the various security incidents they've suffered, but recent UI updates finally made me cancel my paid subscription and switch to 1Password -- a standalone app that integrates with the browser through a very lightweight plugin.
I don't understand the hate against Lastpass. Why would I trade it's awfully simple features (autofill on Android, automatically save/update passwords from website forms in browser, cheap etc.) for something like Keepass, even if the latter is purportedly a bit more secure? Some people also say that Lastpass's UI isn't great, but who cares about a password manager's UI as long as it does the job?
1. Four months ago a bug was discovered by project zero[1] about how all of your passwords can be stolen just by making a user visit a webpage. Moreover, any code can be executed remotely, compromising your entire computer. Discussion[2]
2. Later on the day vulnerability (1) was published, another was found. Project zero bug report. [3]
3. Last year a software engineer who wasn't a security researcher found a bug[4], which again, gives all your passwords.
4. The bug in (3) wasn't fixed properly, which lead to this [5]
Other bugs, but not as terrible as the ones I listed above
Jul 27 2016 [6]
Mar 25 2017 [7]
Jun 17, 2015 [8]
Nov 17, 2015 [9]
You are also forgetting a whole another class of attacks -
Phishing [10]
What ever password manager you move to, chose something that will stay far away from your browser. And don't use anything that autofills your passwords. This includes KeePassHTTP.
Android version also the first thing I set up on a fresh phone. Fingerprint unlock, can input passwords directly into most apps (it matches sites to apps automatically) as well as Chrome.
1Password. Don't know what they're about on Windows, as I'm happy to not use this shit anymore. On Mac and iPhone, I can happily use the newest version without any subscription or anything (which I didn't even knew about)..
Yeah. I actually used to use Dashlane, which has some really crazy cool features like auto-password-changer or something like that.
I switched to 1Password because the quality of support for Dashlane just kept getting lower and lower, and 1Password started getting some really nice features.
Some day I might switch over to `pass` as it's free.
OP also asked what people are using. They're not mutually exclusive statements.
I use 1Password and I don't pay a subscription. I pay them outright, per platform, and call it a day until they give me a reason to do something else. I've also set up other recently in similar patterns. If OP's only issue is the subscription, they may now be aware that there are non-subscription options.
Also, they're the only ones with relatively wide-spread support in Apps (on iOS). In many apps, I can just tap 1P like I do in the browser to log in. And they have a decent user interface.
Subscription to 1Password is not mandatory.
Or at least it was not in the past.
Without a subscription, you can create local vaults which can be synced via Dropbox, iCloud or over WiFi within the same subnet (which means over VPN too).
The subscription isn't really mandatory, but I've been quite disappointed at the transparency with which they've been pushing people towards that...even those of us that purchased the full version somewhat recently. For instance, the complete lack of a Windows version that isn't subscription based is a huge pain since I got a cheap Kodi box recently and my keyboard is a remote control that sucks for typing passwords.
I get that they want to transition people to that revenue model for their own benefit, but they haven't made a convincing argument that it's in our interests and they've definitely made those of us "offline" customers feel like second-class citizens. Normally, I'm all for subscription services, but password management is one area that I want complete control over and if they keep pushing me towards a model that requires their online presence, I'll end up switching.
And shameless plug for my own cross-platform powershell-based 1Password client, which can read both formats of local vaults: https://github.com/latkin/1poshword
I tried the v4, but it wouldn't accept my v6 license key :(
My workaround was to write a small utility that I run on both my Mac and Windows boxes that sits in the background and keeps the two clipboards synchronized. So I just copy from Mac 1p and paste in Windows. Not ideal, since it makes the browser extension useless, but it works well enough for the few times that I need to enter passwords on that box. But on the plus side, I can also use it for entering commands in cmd.exe and Powershell too.
I currently have 1password and 1password 6 installed. At some point I followed an "upgrade" suggestion, found out I don't get the upgrade for free and I had put new passwords into what is now an expired version.
I can't find how to purchase the single license for Windows. I found the download for Windows v4 and the single license purchase for Mac here: https://agilebits.com/store but not the Windows license.
I memorize my passwords and reuse them to a large extent. Strength of the password is actually a lot less important than the website's security and the value of the account.
* relatively weak/old passwords for sites I don't care about and would lose nothing if they were compromised (vast majority)
* a couple relatively strong passwords for the 5-6 sites I don't want compromised, but wouldn't have huge consequences and could be email recoverable.
* unique strong passwords for a couple vital services such as email account.
The re-use depends somewhat on how much I trust the site's security. Also I cycle occasionally by introducing new passwords at the "top" and moving those passwords "down" to less important sites.
Don't all banks do this? Here in the UK it basically seems mandatory. Try to change your password/phone/email, they'll send you an actual letter which has a passcode you need to enter in to the website. Although mine took only a day to arrive.
No, (I'm also in the UK) I've changed a few recently-ish and in each case had only to answer some security questions and then receive a phone call/text message with a code to enter.
1Password & gopass (https://www.justwatch.com/gopass/, it's "pass" compatible if you are using that already). I don't really mind the subscription service as it works fine across all platforms I use.
1Password for all my private stuff and I also have a vault for work credentials (websites, external services, third party APIs etc where autofill in the browser comes in handy)
I use gopass for everything that's company internal.
This, IIRC, requires an older version of 1Password. Version 4, from the "Who moved my cheese" discussion of 1Password's most recent subscription changes.
I can confirm this option still exists in 1Password 6 (I'm using the iCloud sync but I see the option for dropbox as well). I'm not sure how to get the license though. I only see the upgrade path that I took - not the outright purchase.
You can still purchase a Mac license there. I don't see a Windows option, but I'm viewing this from a Mac, so not sure if they're just hiding it. (Some people in this thread have said that there's no longer a non-subscription version for Windows.)
I used KeePass on Windows, and I use KeeWeb on Mac. KeeWeb is fast to search, allows for the inclusion of arbitrary data and tags, has a password generator, and it does autotype, which is nice. Also, it's open source.
I'm a huge fan of Enpass, simple and does exactly what it says on the tin. I've convinced friends and coworkers to switch over to it and they're all very happy with it from what I've heard. What I don't like, and one of the reasons I'm looking at moving away from it, is that the code isn't open source. It also conveniently enables the sending of analytics/data usage by default and hides the option to turn it off at the very bottom of the Preferences / Advanced tab. The only reason I even noticed this was from Little Snitch popping up to tell me. Maybe not a massive problem, but I'd rather a password manager didn't phone home every time I open the damn thing up.
I started using Enpass a few months ago and am mostly happy with it, but I'm not sure it'll work for me long term.
A few of the issues:
- It crashes periodically on Linux. Though it has never wedged the database.
- On ChromeOS, it is "supported" via the Android app, which does not integrate with the Browser plugin from what I can tell. I was really hoping for something that would work there.
- You can't have multiple password databases at all, from what I can tell. I'd really like something that could manage my personal passwords, work passwords that I share with 2 other people at work, and family passwords that are shared with my fiance'.
For the last decade I used a gpg encrypted file on my laptop, combined with passwords saved in the browser on my encrypted file-system. That worked fairly well, until I was in Mexico and my laptop decided to take a vacation too. I couldn't access ANY of my passwords until I got home and could get to my desktop or move my drive to another machine.
Enpass has some benefits:
- The syncing using Google Drive works well.
- Fingerprint unlocking of the vault on my phone works well.
- I've always had a pain point with apps on my phone that update and then need the password again (front door smart lock, car, bank), and I can't access them anymore until I get to my laptop and type in the 30 character random password.
- You can add fields to the records, the default "login" record has "security question" and answer, but for sites that have 3 security questions I can add them as custom fields. (My mothers maiden name? It's "mCxK7JszjJ5Mq29")
- It is available on Linux and Android and kinda on ChromeOS.
I do feel like a web-based one would work better with ChromeOS, but I'm still experimenting with whether ChromeOS can replace my laptop. I'm typing this on my laptop, so...
I use this. My only gripe is that I need to unlock each day for the browser integration to work, and I need to open the app to (not have a service in the background).
I'm a happy Enpass user too. The best thing I like about Enpass is it's built on Open Standard, you can decrypt the database file easily if Enpass dies
They use SQLCipher which is OSS. I understand they don't release the UI code as it is what they use to make money. If you are afraid that they secretly copy your passwords you can easily check this. As you keep the file on your device or place it at a third party service it is more secure than a service like LastPass. Also don't use browser plugins but copy and paste the password
I use iCloud Keychain on macOS and iOS. Both operating systems include a rudimentary interface for managing passwords, and automatically store passwords entered in Safari. Keychain Access on macOS also allows to create secure notes on iCloud Keychain.
iCloud Keychain works great for me. Although, if I could change one thing, it would be to add a dedicated iOS app, instead of having to go to Settings > Safari > Passwords.
Its somewhat easier in iOS 11, there's a more dedicated area in settings. Also, in iOS 11, it provides usernames and passwords within apps, which is super convenient.
The entropy in that is actually quite low, especially if you have even just a slight bias towards popular poems. Given this info I think it'd be quite easy for a dedicated person to reverse a password hash of yours.
Granted, your password hash isn't going to get as much effort as BTC brainwallet cracking, but phrases/lines from common poems are going to be in bruteforcer lists.
Also, for any targeted attacks, everything from every poet or band you've ever liked on facebook or mentioned in any online resource are going to be used against you, so you better use poetry from authors that you don't like or ensure that you have never talked about which authors you like (easier said than done). Checking every line from e.g. Shakespeare is easy.
I reckon on having >100 passwords. Whilst I might manage to remember the phrase I couldn't match them up to the context -- "she wishes for the cloths of heaven" is that Amazon or Etsy??
I have a manually maintained database with a bash one-liner for password generation; primarily I rely on my browser's password manager.
This is what I do. Music lyrics with characters mixed in. I have the alternates memorized so it's fairly easy to remember. Ex: 5, S, and $ are all interchangeable.
I'm using KeepassX with Dropbox. I store the database on Dropbox, so that it's available on my computers running different OSes (Ubuntu, Slackware, MacOS) and my phone at all times.
I'll probably get rid of Dropbox at some point, but I'll keep the same method, which gives me complete satisfaction.
Oh I gotta show off my Keepass (http://keepass.info) with Ubuntu on Win10 setup which I just sorted out this week. The Keepass DB is saved on Dropbox.
I use it for all my passwords but crucially also as a SSH Agent for Bash, Git, Pycharm and WinSCP. My SSH keys are in Keepass and it gets used by Git, Pycharm and WinSCP. So all I need to do is unlock the database and it just works when using SSH in Bash or Pycharm or WinSCP or Git.
Google passwords. I trust their engineering, it's free, passwords are accessible as long as I have a browser and it comes with Chrome.
Negatives: I can't do backups, easily migrate to another supplier and it won't work automatically with other browsers. And it's Google (feels privacy invasive)
This isn't a really great solution, in my opinion. Anyone with access to your google account, or anyone with physical access to any of your synced devices could lift your passwords easily.
Wouldn't anyone with access to my two factor authenticated Google/gmail account be able to reset most of my passwords anyway? The biggest risk is perhaps a rogue Chrome extensions scraping the password page when I visit it.
If you are logged into chrome, with all google passwords synced, you could use NirSoft Chrome Password Export Utility to get a CSV/TXT file of all data; i.e. URL Username Password. Then import it into your other favourite password manager; backup it any secure way you wish.
If the problem is storing data in the cloud, you can still store data locally (outside the 1Password cloud) with the subscription version. Go to "Preferences" -> "Advanced" -> "Allow creation of vaults outside of 1Password accounts".
I use a system where I mix a counter, a master password and website URL.
I don't hash it via a software algorithm, it is a system simple enough to do in my head.
I basically only have to keep track of the counter for the few websites that have forced me to change password.
The counter exist both as a number and spelled out, ensuring that changes in password differs enough for websites that require new passwords to not be similar to old passwords.
It is as secure as any 8-10 character password, except if a person is targeting me, and manages to get 2 or more passwords, there is a chance that they'll notice the system.
But if I am targeted by someone who can crack multiple of my online passwords, then I have pretty much given up hope for my safety.
I used pwclip [1] for several years but I no longer believe that hash-based password managers are the best plan. Now I'm using Seal [2], which is like pass but doesn't depend on gpg.
I use passpack to generate/store passwords, remember them in Firefox, and let Firefox Sync get them onto my different devices. Works pretty well!
My host of devices includes multiple laptops (Linux, OS X) and many different phones - both Android and iOS. Since Firefox runs everywhere, this works nicely. Firefox Sync has end-to-end encryption, but data stored at-rest on devices is guarded purely by physical access, which is fine for my use cases.
I use 1Password and have used it for 5+ year a now and love it. I used to pay one time fees. They were doing a sale for their pricey subscription service when my business partner got interested in using a password manager. So he bought an annual subscription for the both of us at a sale price. I think it ends up being $60 a year for the both of us.
Being able to use different shared password vaults has helped us a lot. As our business entails going through lots of quick sites before moving on to new ones, along with working with different partners.
Sure it still isn't "cheap", but I get a good app and browser plugins on all major platforms.
I highly prefer 1PW to Lastpass because it is much easier to get a lot of different form fields saved into 1PW along with easily adding any number of your own. Lastpass plugins also aren't the greatest.
I'd move to KeePass if I hadn't to stop using 1PW. But I doubt I'll switch while doing business. Shared repos integrated tightly into the UX is too helpful.
Interestingly enough, I immediately moved from LastPass to 1password when I heard about the subscription service. Why? Because I trust AgileBits but last time I wanted to run 1password I was going to need to pay a shit ton of money just to get it on Most of my platforms. Now, overall I'll pay more money, but I don't have to worry about how many platforms I use or upgrading periodically.
Plus, syncing is done right automatically. Sure, AgileBits could go out of business and I'd not be able to use 1password anymore. That's fine. It took one day to switch from LastPass. The lock-in is minimal. I'd rather not continue using a piece of security software without updates being released.
(Even if they did, I have a gut feeling they are classy enough to open source the server, though. It looks like the app already is built with the possibility of connecting to 3rd party sync servers.)
And it looks like a real solution is in the works for Linux finally, so there's that.
I have been managing passwords for more than 12 years with an encrypted vi file. Inside the file, every login uses a unique password. I generate unique passwords in batches of 100 or so using a script that I list below.
This scheme has the obvious single point of entry weakness and a further keystroke logger vulnerability. I have never had any of the 360+ accounts and logins compromised.
It is very important to not use the browser for secure activity if one has been browsing Internet junk recently. I have no doubt that all kinds of keystroke logging scripts do get started. I occasionally run rkhunter and top looking for intrusions and compromises.
Script for making big batches of passwords:
File of passwords. First 99 are lettes usable for names, next 100 is pasword strings. 1-6-2008
Here is the command line:
(/usr/bin/apg -a 1 -n 99 -m 11 -x 13 -M CL; /usr/bin/apg -a 1 -n 100 -m 17 -x 23 -M NCL ) | cat -n
I have one simple master password. I modify it slightly based on the url of each website. I have a text file backed up on Dropbox with any special rules for the password on each website (e.g. "turbotax:
capitalized + bang").
Works great as long as you can resist the urge to tell other people about your system!
I wrote https://github.com/mozilla/sops to manage secrets in our deployments, and also use it as my personal password store, to encrypt a file stored in a private git repo.
Your master password is remembered visually, instead of as an arbitrary string. My contention is that you're less likely to forget specific spots on distinct images than an arbitrary sequence of characters. The method has worked perfectly for me since I began using it, but only one other person I know uses it, and it has NOT been audited or scrutinized by an expert in the field. Nonetheless, check it out. It's free, being more of an idea than a technology. Besides, I can't charge you for something you've stored in your own visual cortex!
I like this idea. Giving it a go, I found generating the passwords time consuming - as in sometimes I would be okay to get a simple 2 image throwaway password without having to go throuugh all 6 images. However I suspect that my impatience was just curiosity in wanting to find out how it worked, and what I would see whan I finished :-)
I also didn't feel much attachment to the image - which could be addressed and has got me more interested about. Memory palaces. Genius loci - ancient way of remembering things using space, places. This works in a similar way, images exist on 2D space - the genius loci work best when the mental image is something you know well, that you remember well.
I use https://pwdhash.com algorithmic password generator. It is the sweet spot of more security without too much added frustration.
Usually I use the Chrome extension, but when that fails I built a more user friendly web interface: https://ph.leftium.com
To avoid having to change all my passwords at once when one password must be changed, I suffix my master password with a sequential suffix. In the worst case, the last few suffixes don't work and I use the service's password reset feature to update the password to the latest suffix.
Note that the algorithm used by pwdhash is very weak. It uses just one round of 1 round of HMAC-MD5. Not even a slow hash function.
See https://github.com/dannysu/hash0 for comparison of other similar sites that all have the same flaw and the reason I coded hash0 (no longer maintained though).
I've considered making a version of PwdHash that uses a stronger hash function (and I think my brother did make one)...
But to be honest, if a hacker specifically targets you, you will probably be compromised, no matter how strong a hash function you use. (They will probably just use one of the many other attack vectors.)
And there's that joke about two guys running from a bear. "I don't have to outrun the bear; I just have to outrun you"
PwdHash lets me have unique, non-trivial passwords for every site with minimal fuss. There will be probably lots of lower hanging fruit before hackers start targeting PwdHash-generated passwords.
I use Firefox sync for my web needs and a plain text file (on my encrypted laptop) for everything else that doesn't fit into that. The more sensitive stuff (credit card, computer unlock) is in my brain with a hidden paper backup.
I use MacPass (KeePass OS X client) and sync the DB with a (2FA enabled) Box Sync account.
I use the Chrome ChromIPass plugin for user/passwords autofill. There is also a FF plugin, but I usually stick with Chrome these days.
I tried to switch to Lastpass but I found that a) the plugin was a terrible resource hog and b) would make some sites unusable due to ridiculous page load times. Obviously it works for some people, but the attack vector of sites like LastPass are so large, I was never comfortable following the masses.
1Password synced w/ Dropbox. Using Windows, MacOS + Android support. Very unhappy about the recent push toward subscription-based model, though, so I'm starting to look around for something new. Lots of good options in this thread.
For those in need of a cross-platform (Windows, Mac, Linux), open source 1Password CLI client, check out https://github.com/latkin/1poshword (disclaimer: my project)
I have used for year a KISS (Keep it simple) solution: I have a directory encrypted with encfs where I keep all sensitive data. The directory is shared through dropox by all my devices. In this directory I keep a plain text file with all passwords, domain, used email.... It is actually a YAML file cause I also have a simple groovy scripts that pastes the password (given domain or key) in my clipboard, but any text file would do the job. As simple as that.
I use an encrypted disk image (in this case a macOS .dmg, but it could be any similar format) filled with text files that I edit in vim.
I don't use random passwords, I use (mostly) memorable ones. I mount the disk image only when I forget one. It's an aid to help me memorise passwords and keep track of important information (reference numbers etc), not a single point of failure without which I can't get into anything.
I use keeweb as a desktop app, and I save the file locally, backing up to gdrive and cold storage hard drive weekly.
My laptop is my primary device so I'm not too concerned with logging into accounts on mobile, but if I really needed to get my passwords without my laptop, I could get use the keeweb web app with my gdrive backup.
Each account has a unique email address, and important accounts have a unique password element added.
I use firefox bookmarks to note down in a cryptic manner any variations to the common themes I use. The bookmarks are synced across computers.
The upshot is I always use firefox bookmarks to log in to a site, which means I am not clicking links from emails and I am always in an extension free browser.
Yep, it's good that LastPass seems to respond quickly to reported vulnerabilities. Who knows how long those issues existed before getting discovered, though. And some of them were quite serious.
I use Universal Password Manager (UPM). It runs everywhere, syncs to dropbox (or wherever), pretty fast start time even though it's java. Github link: https://github.com/adrian/upm-swing
I still use a GPG encrypted org-mode file. Emacs/org-mode opens it seamlessly.
I feel like I should move to Keepass at some point, but it's one of those cases where if I'm apathetic long enough, Keepass will be gone and I'll still have my Emacs setup.
I use pass nowadays but used to use org for passwords, but in my setup I used to only encrypt the contents of entries, i.e. headings were in plain text. Then I used the function below to decrypt them. Made it easier to browse the file.
(cl-defun gk-org-decrypt-element ()
"Decrypt the element under point, show in a new buffer."
(interactive)
(save-excursion
(let ((transient-mark-mode t))
(org-mark-element)
(epa-decrypt-region
(region-beginning) (region-end)
(lambda ()
(let ((decrypted-elem (org-get-heading t t))
(bufnam (buffer-name)))
(prog1
(switch-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Org Secret*"))
(read-only-mode -1)
(fundamental-mode)
(erase-buffer)
(insert ">>> " decrypted-elem " (" bufnam ")")
(newline)
(insert ">>> Hit `Q' in order to *kill* this buffer.")
(newline 2)
(special-mode)
(local-set-key [?Q] 'kill-this-buffer))))))))
Password Safe[1] (almost entirely on Windows clients) and version control on home server via ssh. And most of my passwords are memorized by my Google account.
It solves a number of annoyances. First, it's easy to type on mobile if you need to for some dumb website that clears your input field when you alt-tab, since it sticks to numbers, letters, then capitalised letters. It contains a non-alpha numeric character, but at the end for stupid forms that don't allow them.
As for keeping the passwords around, you can do one of a couple things, but I generally just forget the password after logging in with it everywhere. I'm signed into chrome, so what's the point in remember the password myself? Unless it's something sensitive I don't bother. It's easier to generate a new one than to dig it up.
It seems from all the comments, that there is no consensus. I use LastPass, and I don't trust any expert. Even the LastPass guys claim expertise. I don't believe them.
KeePass and KeeWeb are both great interfaces that can read KDBX format.
I sync with Dropbox and encrypt with a private key that I carry with me or keep on my main machines.
Lie! Now any would be culprits if you are actually targeted will go after the wrong thing.
I answered publicly because I don't put my few most important info into my password manager I have mentioned here (or do I?) - 2 main emails, FB, main bank accounts, main brokerages. Few most important SSH keys and pws. Anything else getting taken would suck, but I don't think too much harm can as long as the above are safe. Maybe I'm being myopic.
Congratulations for having the patience to write out long strings of characters on paper and type them out repeatedly, but that doesn't sound very safe.
You can make it safe by using a secret key in conjunction with the keys. For example; all passwords as written but the third character must be # instead of what's written. This renders the book useless if stolen or copied.
If you keep the book in a locked draw and use some tell tails to ensure that you will know if it's been opened you have a strong chance of being able to know if you have been physically compromised.
Any online key store is vulnerable in a number of ways, end to end security is hard. The biggest issue is that your provider might be placed under significant physical pressure relieved only when your account is compromised.
Well "safe". Once your written down password is compromised (e.g. with a photo of a page), the entropy for cracking the password is tremendously minimized. In combination with dumped hashes of the site in question even more.
For SSH, KeePass + KeeAgent with the private/public keys as attachments to the KeePass entries. For other files, like a GPG export, again KeePass with its file attachment feature.
I wonder how successful Dashlane is. HN is not the best place to gauge how something is doing, but barely any mentions of Dashlane. Enpass the other known password manager got a number of mentions besides the "big 3" (Lastpass, 1PW, KeePass).
vim has a command line switch to encrypt files when they are written. I use my password file on mac, linux and windows and vim works on all these platforms.
Do you know people who run it? Doesn't seem very popular. The prices are pretty expensive with their in my opinion bad limitations on their plans. Limiting by number of password seems lame. Their allowance of a lot of shared users might be good but I'm not completely sure what that means.
Not sure why anyone would use them over Lastpass or 1Password.
I chose them a long time ago for reasons I don't remember. It seems to be working well so I don't see a reason for changing. I would probably to something open source now.
It's crazy Roboform is still around. They didn't honor my
old purchase so i moved on from them. Their product from a far also doesn't look that good in 2017. Did not expect to see a serious mention of Roboform in this thread though!
Ah. I used to love Roboform and bought it for $20 for life but then they changed their minds about honouring that so I went elsewhere. Lastpass currently.
