Now I will have to seriously consider getting off the Google ecosystem now. Deactivating facebook was okay, but Google might be tricky considering many of website accounts use Google authentication.
Okay, this is a small rant that is not directly aimed at you, so nothing personal. This is aimed generally more at people in the privacy at all costs camp and the like. If there's some viewpoint I'm missing here I'd also love to hear it, so it's not really a mean-spirited rant either.
Google owns the internet at this point. For general use purposes, they ARE the internet. So avoiding them should really have at least SOME effect before it's even seriously considered.
What does getting off Google do?
It doesn't hurt them, as there's no way a significant number of people will take action, at least in the near future.
So, then it must be done for you. By not being in these services and having all this data collected on you, what do you actually gain? Likely, nothing at all. You won't be able to be tracked down as easily if Google turns evil, sure. If their data is breached in a meaningful way, sure again. But, for both of these, emphasis on "as easily". At this point, if you're looking to maliciously track down just about anyone, it's not hard at all. You'd have to go fully off the grid to get this. And in that scenario, what do you gain again? We follow down the same road of "I only gain something in very unlikely scenarios" again.
So to me, the only way this type of perspective makes sense is if you believe those very unlikely scenarios (from my view) are much more likely. And if they are, we're all fucked already, and being one of the few to be off the grid probably won't matter in the end.
Basically, at this point, you've already given yourself to Google. Rather than decide whether or not to trust them, I think putting more effort into trying to influence them towards "not being evil", as they say, is much more of a realistic move for someone with concerns over data, privacy, power/security of all this, etc.
Am I missing something?
PS: I understand Facebook - for some, there are no significant benefits you give up. For most, you're going to give up a lot more with Google.
I don't know, I think it's easier than you make it out to be. I don't use gmail, I have Duck Duck Go as my main search engine, I don't log into Google in my main browser. I just don't use anything on a regular basis that needs a google login. When I do, I open Chrome and log in there, so it doesn't taint my main browser. It hasn't affected my life or my career negatively (or at all, really).
That's a fair answer, and I'm sure one that many share. Thanks for addressing the question directly - I see how for a minority of users, the switch makes sense.
I guess for me, I don't care enough to make all those changes. As a Chrome user, the sync across things is nice, and I enjoy the interface. I'll take the ease at risk of someone having my data in a catastrophic situation. Obviously, your choice makes great sense for you.
> I guess for me, I don't care enough to make all those changes.
Up until I read this article, I used to feel the opposite way. I think there is some value in everyone having privacy and personal space. It gives us an opportunity to decompress and relieve some of the stresses of our increasingly connected world.
However, discovering that Google (and others) are merging my online and offline behavior is making me doubt my viewpoint (the 70% figure really hit hard). If I can't escape it, why not just be apart of it? Surely life is a bit simpler: not having to pay for email, better search results (DDG vs Google)... It seems that whether you want to or not, you _will_ become part of the google/facebook/etc ecosystem.
The other reason I used non-google services was in some ways to "hedge" my position. By using a non-google email with a custom domain, I am not tied down to any email provider (note: I bought the domain explicitly for email use). If I ever became unsatisfied with my email service, I could always switch to a different provider without the hassle of creating a new email address. Now, maybe this is just a defeatist view, but I think google/facebook are too big to fail. If google disappeared tomorrow or in 10 years, there would be chaos -too much of the world depends on it. Does this give them enough power to exist in perpetuity? Maybe it's time to just cave in and use all google services. It sure is cheaper.
> "I think there is some value in everyone having privacy and personal space."
I never got how Google having my data as part of a larger picture ever affected either of those in my daily life. They use it for power in mass, not over individuals. It's an important political conversation, but it's doing everything but affecting me specifically/individually in my daily life (in negative ways at least)
Edit: Just wanted to say I appreciated the comment. As far as too big to fail goes, I don't think Facebook is yet - they are fighting hard to become that right now though. You can easily function without Facebook - right now it's basically only serving as an address book and messaging service for me, and I have good alternatives for both of those. Google's integration into everything is what makes them too big to fail. I've given up on fighting Google, but I'm still careful to some extent with Facebook.
They can track your purchases, but if you stop using Google credentials, they're going to have a lot harder time tying it to your ad views.
It's impossible to avoid having at least some data in various services, but if you divide and conquer, keep accounts separate as much as possible, don't have accounts with companies that collect data about you in other ways (or use fake names and email aliases), you can break up their picture of you.
While articles will point out how small groups of anonymous information can positively identify someone, these programs are likely to be more fragile on a large scale basis. Don't make it easy, and more than likely, at least some of the tracking and the benefit they get from it will fail.
Another possible solution is to go through all of Google's privacy settings and opt-out of all their tracking. They're better than most about being upfront and giving you opt-out options.
"Hey, they did feed us our whole lives, and gave us room to run for a bit. And they're a farm, so it's your fault for not realizing they were going to kill you for meat the entire time. And we're practically halfway to the slaughter house right now, so why would you even try to put up a fight. Just give in and let them end it nice and quick."
As opposed to going kicking and screaming, all to the same end?
The metaphor is still flawed thoguh doesn't add anything to the conversation here. What exactly is the equivalent of death here? Google has all your data - what could they do with it that will affect you realistically? Or if someone malicious gets it?
My point is that the likelihood of malicious activity is low, and so are the consequences. Am I missing something?
We live in the information age, when information is the ultimate power.
One danger is that with all that data about you and very advanced AI/ML tech Google can push you into making irrational purchase decisions (yeah, I know YOU are special, and advertising doesn't work on YOU) - e.g. buying a red sports car in your 40s.
The other is this data will be available to NSA, GCHQ, etc. and their controlling governments, politicians, their wealthy sponsors/muppetmasters, etc. Do you trust the politicians in USA, or any other courtry?
We are all man and not angels. Having all data on someone, you can always find shady stuff. Using that government and big business can make sure there are no influential union leaders, political parties offering real change, etc. It will be the end of (however imperfect) democracy.
"We live in the information age, when information is the ultimate power."
That power doesn't come from your individual data point, but rather from the collective points. In order to have an effect on that power, you need mass action.
The rest of my comment back is already covered by the other child comment here by name_for_now, which I strongly agree with.
So, outside of giving your data to government agencies, you're saying the worst thing Google can do is use ML to turn you into a consumer-zombie? While I mostly share your stance on this, that argument just seems completely ineffective (in part to the sense of exceptionalism you mention). Unless there's some poster child case of this that I'm unaware of, I'm not sure why "big scary ML-injected ads" keep getting brought up when there are potentially more valid concerns out there.
Moving on, the remainder of the argument relies on the assumption of an antagonistic state, which if true, means you have a much bigger and immediate problem in the first place. Google or not, China seems to be doing pretty well as a surveillance state so that doesn't seem too convincing either.
So I don't think that opinions will change without a string of high profile incidents that substantiate both of the concerns you mention.
> I think putting more effort into trying to influence them towards "not being evil", as they say, is much more of a realistic move for someone with concerns over data, privacy, power/security of all this, etc.
There's absolutely no chance for me to do that. I don't work at Google, I'm not rich nor influential. I have as much influence on what Google does as I have influence on the orbit of the planets.
i don't avoid spy-tech companies to hurt them, i do it because i have a problem with being spied on. i also prefer to be a direct customer of the businesses whose services i utilize. it is important to me that our interests are aligned. why? i don't really know. personal preference? paranoia? doesn't really matter.
i can't control google and i don't care about trying to influence them. i do my own thing and i make a lot of my own stuff. i like it that way. i like the independence.
> By not being in these services and having all this data collected on you, what do you actually gain? Likely, nothing at all.
By closing the curtains in your bedroom when you're about to get busy with your partner, what do you actually gain? Likely, nothing at all.
I place a not-inconsiderable weight on not feeling like I'm being watched and recorded every second of the day and night. By controlling which data I give companies like Google and Facebook, I significantly reduce this creepy feeling and so gain a significant amount of peace of mind.
You're not wrong but for me this kind of behavior just takes away the joy of technology. We don't completely own or control our devices. The services that we use all have hidden (or not so hidden) agendas and treat us as products.
I'm still using an old Nexus 4 but I can't be bothered to replace it. Nothing on that market excites me anymore.
I think the point is that we will give our data and maybe trust to other companies. I don't care if Google is hurt or not. Another company that is more privacy-centric and not creepily tracking everything (anonymized or not) will benefit though.
Depends what you're looking for. You won't find one single company with as many tendrils as Google... but that's okay, you should be really worried about a company with that many tendrils. If you need email/calendar/contacts, I recommend FastMail, for example, but you're gonna have to get your hardware and your other services from someone else.
Personally I use a few Google services - search, News, Products, YouTube, without logging in and don't see why you'd ever NEED an account. If you have to use something like their analytics or cloud, just spin up a VPN-ed VM.
It's also a matter of principle. You can always argue that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear in support of more surveillance. But that's a slippery slope.
> Google owns the internet at this point. For general use purposes, they ARE the internet.
This is an obscene exaggeration.
You are seriously overestimating how much significance Google has, and how irreplaceable they are in people's lives.
If you've never seriously bothered looking into leaving the Google ecosystem though, I could see how you might think that way.
The hardest part about transitioning away from Google for me personally, was the time it took to switch all my accounts from one email address (GMail) to others (Kolab, Posteo).
It was still no more than a few hours of one day. After that, no more Google. I've been free of any Google accounts or services for around 4 years now and despite an initial headache, I don't feel like I'm missing any irreplaceable conveniences.
Just use a different email provider (or roll your own), use duck duck go for web searches, don't use an android device.
What else do they own?
It's already becoming in vogue to move away from facebook/google and are actively looking to move towards other systems but there aren't a lot of quality options out there at the moment.
If I could quickly spin up a remote server that had baked in panels for email, blog, and hooked up to mastadon, and a distributed reddit, I would probably go a step further. Further than that? Not sure what else I could do.
By using these services, your beliefs, habits, work, and by extension you yourself, are slowly being turned into a product for consumption by, at best, profiteering business executives, and at worst, totalitarian regimes.
Does facebook want you to find and actually spend time with people? No, they want you hooked on their website endlessly posting cat pictures and looking at cat pictures from your "friends". By doing this, they make you lonely and isolate you from actual social contact; there's an entire generation of kids who think socialization is facebook. Facebook is loneliness and isolation and when they have you there, on facebook, isolated, they own you.
Integrate your Facebook with Spotify? Someone pays spottily to run subversive, politically motivated songs. Who do you talk about that for reference? To know if the politics or history you are being sold are factual.
Integrate your Facebook with Uber? Uber now knows your approximate income and how gullible you are, and will charge you a consummate rate.
Integrate your Facebook with your New york times subscription? All of the MSM outlets use parametric targeting of readers to display articles to them think they will identify with. If someone pays them advertise to passionate democrats in order to get them to donate, chances are, you will see a never-ending news "feed" (Love how they call this a feed, like a cattle feed) of tabloid news which provides you with all kinds of "calls to action" in order to donate. You'll see stories on how chocolate cures cancer, then an ad from nestle. The more information they have on you, the more precise and intense the targeting.
And you won't know, you can't know, because engaging in that degree of paranoia is crazy.
What do you get by opting out completely?
Advertising works by making you unhappy, by manipulating you to be unhappy, by whispering terrible and horrible things in your ear and hoping you buy a lifetime subscription of unhappiness. It tells young, beautiful women they need makeup in order to be beautiful. It tells ingenious IT geeks they aren't good enough without knowing framework X or having product Y. It tells fat people to buy dieting products that never work, that can't work, because if they were to cure the problem, they couldn't ever be sold another approach. Go search google for weight loss right now; How useful is ANY of that information to someone who wants to lose weight? The observation being, google is providing you with nothing, absolutely nothing, because you_are_the_product.
While you are ingesting advertising, you will never be content. You will never be fulfilled. And worse, the more time you spend in the bubble, the more of what and who you are will be configured to be that unhappy, totally messed up amalgamation people the big businesses wanted you to be, and the longer it will take to de-consumerize.
This is what psychological warfare has become; what the studies and sciences of psychographics, psychovisuals, psychoaudio, public relations, communication and marketing has become.
If you opt out, you retain your freedom to think for yourself, act for yourself, and be yourself. You retain your ability to be content and happy. You get to have real friends. You no longer exist in the 7th circle of hell.
I don't want to dismiss it as completely paranoid, because I know it isn't fully. Many of these things could be or are happening (I would likely say fewer are in existence now than you I'm sure). The difference is that I don't really mind that much.
Your view of advertising is quite terrible. It doesn't work that perfectly. I've never had a Coke in my life, but I know their brand because of their effective advertising. My happiness has never once been affected by it. If you are able to parse advertising language, the messages are clear, and the bad messages just become laughable.
Of course companies have motives all centered around profit - welcome to capitalism, for better or worse.
> "If you opt out, you retain your freedom to think for yourself, act for yourself, and be yourself. You retain your ability to be content and happy. You get to have real friends. You no longer exist in the 7th circle of hell."
You can also be "in" and still be able to think, act, and be yourself. You just need to be aware that you're in. I'd be a lot more affected by trying to opt out rather than the mental filtering that anyone who's aware trains themselves with. Not to mention that this has nothing to do with real friendships.
