While I agree that growth can happen trough struggle (which does not equate suffering!), I have a very hard time believing that most living things are actively looking for suffering or pain.
What living things do you know that go actively out of their way to experience pain and suffering? Such a behavior would be highly disadvantageous to any species and would run counter to the most basic instincts of all things living. We have pain receptors for a reason, that reason ain't that we just gotta learn to "enjoy the pain". As such I would argue that all living things live their lives on a rather hedonistic basis.
Equally, it could be argued that if "having a calling" makes you "suffer less", because you've found a purpose for your life while a lack of purpose can lead to suffering, then having a calling might just as well be considered a hedonistic lifestyle choice.
The notion that pain and suffering are something that needs to happen to "pull trough" is trough and trough a human invention among the same lines as proper "working virtues".
>What living things do you know that go actively out of their way to experience pain and suffering? Such a behavior would be highly disadvantageous to any species and would run counter to the most basic instincts of all things living. We have pain receptors for a reason, that reason ain't that we just gotta learn to "enjoy the pain". As such I would argue that all living things live their lives on a rather hedonistic basis.
What about extreme sports? Extreme meaning ultra-marathons here, not jumping off buildings and rocks.
I'd say if you live a too sheltered existence where you avoid all negative feelings, you will have a very bad time in a crisis. So choosing to experience suffering is an insurance of sorts, learning to manage it so that you can function when it's really needed.
Masochists are the outlier that pretty much always exists and are a rather bad example because humans are the only species with the luxury of possibly having such a, rather destructive, trait among their population.
Afaik there are no wild animals exhibiting behavior that's comparable to human masochism if animals with comparable traits existed they most likely went extinct because going out of your way to actively look for "pain and suffering" is a rather big disadvantage in the grand game of survival.
> Afaik there are no wild animals exhibiting behavior that's comparable to human masochism
The context of this whole discussion is hedonism, utilitarianism, ethical theory, and philosophy in general. These ideas don't exist (to our knowledge) amongst animals, so I don't find it convincing to use animals to support your argument.
>These ideas don't exist (to our knowledge) amongst animals, so I don't find it convincing to use animals to support your argument.
But aren't we humans just that, animals?
While the concept of ethical hedonism is of a rather philosophical nature, I still think the basic definition of hedonism translates very well into actual nature.
At least when hedonism is defined as "strive for pleasure and happiness" while evading "pain and suffering" there should be no issue applying this to other animals because we know for a fact that animals, besides humans, are able of these emotions and feelings.
What we don't know is if other animals actively reflect about these things. But that's a matter of motivation and not actual observed behavior, if we go by observed behavior than pretty much all living things are living a "hedonistic lifestyle".
I've heard an accent that has trouble pronouncing the English "th" sound, instead approximating it with more of a "t" sound that misses the tongue thrust. Maybe that is what's happening here?
Sorry about that, I'm not a native speaker so I sometimes confuse words that sound similar.
Grammarly is usually pretty good about pointing stuff like that out, sadly it failed me this time.
What living things do you know that go actively out of their way to experience pain and suffering? Such a behavior would be highly disadvantageous to any species and would run counter to the most basic instincts of all things living. We have pain receptors for a reason, that reason ain't that we just gotta learn to "enjoy the pain". As such I would argue that all living things live their lives on a rather hedonistic basis.
Equally, it could be argued that if "having a calling" makes you "suffer less", because you've found a purpose for your life while a lack of purpose can lead to suffering, then having a calling might just as well be considered a hedonistic lifestyle choice.
The notion that pain and suffering are something that needs to happen to "pull trough" is trough and trough a human invention among the same lines as proper "working virtues".