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> This isn't some evil plot, it's just fallout from Chrome removing support for third-party plugins and thus the plugin management UI

So instead it's just a fallout from an earlier plot that is no less evil than this one appears to be.




Removing binary plugin support is not evil at all.


but attempting to add DRM to an open standard is!


"Lesser of two evils". I prefer a nicely sandboxed and secured EME plugin over the insecure and clunkly silverlight pipelight trickery that was necessary before.

Blame the media industry for forcing it.


I don't think so.

If Google was only implementing DRM to tick boxes, they wouldn't be implementing "extracurriculars" like hardware-based DRM on ChromeOS devices.

They wouldn't own the very DRM company whose product they're peddling, a company which advertises to the very industry which is supposedly forcing Google's hand. http://www.widevine.com/

Take a look at this page and search for 'HW_SECURE_ALL': http://www.widevine.com/product_news.html

Now, what exactly is the point in implementing a more secure DRM variant (which as far as I can tell uses remote attestation) if content remains available to more 'vulnerable' platforms? We even have a potential lockin motive by Google here, too. I can see it now: "Only available on ChromeOS."


Did you know that Netflix only supports up to 720p on Chrome and Firefox? Because the DRM in those is easy to circumvent. People want higher than 720p, so browsers implement better DRM.


Google _is_ part of the media industry.


It's part of the advertising industry who's clients include the media industry.


True, but I was thinking more about the part where they sell music streaming services (Google Play Music, YouTube Red). Maybe I am wrong since they are not producers, but I considered this as being part of the media industry.


In order to confirm the plugin is in control of your computer, enough to prevent you from copying the precious bits, how sandboxed do you really think the DRM is? It has to have its claws like a rootkit into your machine in order to be "secure". How sandboxed can it be then?


> Blame the media industry for forcing it.

No, I'll blame the ad company pushing it into the browser.


Or we can blame google for gleefully going along too.


"Lesser of two evils" is piracy.


Blame the content producers who insist that distributors 'protect' their content with DRM. Distributors aren't going to leave that money on the floor.


Why not blame both, as both are to blame.

W3C is more to blame that all of them, as they have violated their mission statement with EME and DRM


I guess I just don't see the harm. If EME standardization did not take place at W3C, I think it would take place at another standards organization, or privately between content distributors and browser developers. Either way, it still happens and nothing is materially different.


If I go to a site that is "HTML5 Compatible" I should not have to worry if my "HTML5 Browser" has all the proper binary blobs and approvals to support the content.

If something is standard complaint it should work for all platforms that support the standard not just the Billion dollar corporations that paid to get their technology included into the standard


Come on we can't have it both way : promote the standard based Web and complain about the death of 3rd party plugin !


Why can't we? Do I really need that popup saying that 'developer mode' plugins are ZOMG HARMING ME? Because I installed ad nauseam that they removed because of the political BS?

Don't get me wrong, my beloved firefox is not better. It wants me to install dev edition to be able to install anything.

We made a mistake somewhere along the way.


Both of those things (unsigned plugins causing permanent warnings and/or only being enabled for a developer edition) happen because not doing them means leaking open the one last (huge) hole malware can infect computers through

The modern browser 1. is its own OS, but 2. doesn't have any concept of a privilege-level separation. That means any random program running as user X is free to install an extension into user X's Chrome or Firefox profile without needing to ask permission. And then said extension can harvest your social-network profiles, replace ads with their own, etc.


> Both of those things (unsigned plugins causing permanent warnings and/or only being enabled for a developer edition) happen because not doing them means leaking open the one last (huge) hole malware can infect computers through

Modern operating systems have a concept of users, groups of users and dedicating one of these to the role of administrator. I see no problem in not enforcing signing rule for the extensions installed by administrator (at system-wide locations, not user profile) - they are read only for the rest of the users anyway, so they couldn't be installed by drive-by malware. Power users are happy, naive users are protected.

If there is a malware that looks like installed by administrator, you have much bigger problems anyway. That malware could patch the firefox binary in the same way as it could deploy the extension, so you gained exactly nothing.

But the current situation just makes power users unhappy. This policy killed some extensions that were shipped by Linux distributions.


> But the current situation just makes power users unhappy. This policy killed some extensions that were shipped by Linux distributions.

I though this change was only about Windows? Chrome on Linux lets me load unsigned extensions just fine.


Sorry, I don't know about Chrome, I was talking about Firefox. AFAIK only Firefox extensions were shipped by distributions.


Fedora uses a patch to allow system installed addons.


Any random program running as user X, if malicious, can do far worse things to the user than install plugins into the browser.

Apparently the major browser vendors' solution to the problem of things running as users breaking the browser is to remove the ability for users to do things. This is a bogus solution.

See: Firefox's chrome-ification of the plugin system.


The mistake was made by companies abusing external plugin support to install plugins that make the browser vulnerable, slow or unstable.

The browser vendors then get to take all the "credit" for that. Their decision to remove support for external plugins is absolutely reasonable.


> Do I really need that popup saying that 'developer mode' plugins are ZOMG HARMING ME?

The feature was actively abused my malware so I guess this does makes sense.


I get why both browsers require signed plugins unless you are using the developer branch, on Windows 7 a huge vector of attack was malicious files loading unsigned plugins in Chrome in particular (also saw it in Firefox, but rarer) that would create popups, inject ads onto sites that didn't have ads, steal passwords, etc.

That being said, I wish there was a way I could use unsigned plugins easily, without reinstalling firefox.


Because flash, silverlight, java applets....


It's a debatable question what is evil. Governments were actively exploiting plugins, so removing them makes users more secure.




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