I wish folks like Bray had championed this cause 20 years ago. It may not have done much, but... it feels a bit weird to hear old people complain about discriminatory impact. I can't say he was a contributing factor to the ongoing 'youth culture', but... it wasn't hard to see this coming.
My situation may be somewhat unique, in that I've had grey hair since I was 18. Not a HUGE amount at 18, but... people noticed. By the time I was in my mid 20s, it was definitely noticeable - more pepper than salt still, but noticeable. By 30... there's a fair amount of grey showing. Early 30s I've got people thinking I look good for being in my late 40s (had that more than a couple times).
But when it came to interviewing and opportunities, I was already feeling the age stigma in my late 20s. "Not a cultural fit" - not even in silicon valley mind you.
Had someone interviewing me - early 30s - said "well your resume only goes back about 12 years or so, what were you doing before that?" "High school". "Whoah..." - later found out he's assumed I was mid 40s.
Could I dye my hair? Yeah, but.. it's a pain, and... other parts of me will get old too. Not worth it - want to get hired based on ability, etc.
What's sad is to hear about the mid 30s folks wanting to get plastic surgery to look younger, which just validates and perpetuates the continuous youth culture. May not be possible to fight it at the Facebooks and Googles of the world, but it shouldn't be this bad...
Same here (30 now), and I'm dyeing my hair every month (1 day before going for a haircut, to be exact). I like looking younger myself, but I've also noticed a different perception from clients (I'm a freelancer). Got some grey showing in my full beard as well, and might dye it too once it bothers me. Dyeing takes about 45m in total, and is really good for a month if done around the time of haircuts. That's for short hair (2-7cm). I hate ordinary dye as it contains ammonia, but I found an ammonia-free foam application that works well. 45m and €8 per month is quite cheap to invest in (subjectively) better looks and improved confidence when talking to clients.
Isn't it the other way around when you are freelancing? I remember that people didn't really take me serious when I was around 25... Now that my first grey hairs are appearing (I'm 30) people start treating me like a grown-up.
I can't comment on Facebook but at Google I see plenty of people in their mid 30s and beyond. I joined in my early 40s. Yeah, we hire a lot of new grads / younger folks (I interview a lot of new grads) but I haven't noticed any overt ageism in the groups I've been in. Plus, the people making the hire decision don't see the candidate anyways. You should/would most likely get called out by the hiring groups if you added in color/vague "cultural fit" references.
Well, that's a huge company with many different types of engineers, and in business a long time (relatively). I would say the ageism is more likely at small startups that happen to have mostly young (in their 20s) engineers.
That's likely to be self-selecting, isn't it? I know as a 37 year old engineer with 2 kids I value stability and a reliable salary over excitement/'changing the world'/foosball tables etc.
I have the same hair "problem" (it runs in the family on my mother's side), I'm early 30s as well with significant gray hair showing and refusing to dye my hair, and... for me it has always been pretty much an advantage to get senior / management positions relatively fast since I was about 25 (I always tell anyone who asks/mocks about my hair that "at least they take me more seriously") and it has worked out pretty well so far.
My resume never goes back more than 5-7 yrs because it's not meant to be a history report but should be a strong 1-pager with just the highlights of your career, relative and relevant to the position you're applying for (for example, I started leaving out my education because it's not relevant to my experience anymore and it's not been a problem at all). I hope, for my own sake, that I don't owe everything to my hair, but it's definitely not been an obstacle to my progress.
I think confidence and attitude signal more than whatever you think people think about your hair (for starters, stop worrying/thinking about what other people may or may not perceive about you, simply project the self that you want to be) and if you worry about the gap in age perception so much, why not just put your birth date on your resume?
these experiences were mostly > 10 years ago, and since working for myself, it's largely a non-issue. I posted here not so much to complain/whine as much as to add (yet) another anecdote about ageism. Visual impressions do count on first meetings (well, all the time), and there's often little or nothing you can do about them (skin color, eye color, height, etc), and yes, a certain degree of "just get on with it and present yourself with confidence" is needed. There's also an issue about "if a hiring manager is that shallow, you may not want to work for that company anyway", but it's easier to take that mindset when you've got savings and prospects, vs having been out of work for a year and having trouble getting past a f2f interview (after having aced phone conversations) because of your hair color or age (not happened to me - yet? - but have had a couple friends go through this already just in late 40s).
I have the same problem. I have more grey than not at this point and I'm only a hair past 30. I've been thinking about dying it for interviews but the moment it washes out people are probably going to be put off by the charade regardless if it's right or wrong. Not to mention it signals insecurity. So I'd have to dye it and stick with it which sounds like a real pain in the ass.
Stories like this worry me. I'm in my early-mid 30's and the grey is starting to become noticeable. If I was to go on a job hunt I might get it colored.
I guess that's what happens when kids do enterprise: they think of office as an high school party, not as a place to get things done and cultivate a product.
My situation may be somewhat unique, in that I've had grey hair since I was 18. Not a HUGE amount at 18, but... people noticed. By the time I was in my mid 20s, it was definitely noticeable - more pepper than salt still, but noticeable. By 30... there's a fair amount of grey showing. Early 30s I've got people thinking I look good for being in my late 40s (had that more than a couple times).
But when it came to interviewing and opportunities, I was already feeling the age stigma in my late 20s. "Not a cultural fit" - not even in silicon valley mind you.
Had someone interviewing me - early 30s - said "well your resume only goes back about 12 years or so, what were you doing before that?" "High school". "Whoah..." - later found out he's assumed I was mid 40s.
Could I dye my hair? Yeah, but.. it's a pain, and... other parts of me will get old too. Not worth it - want to get hired based on ability, etc.
What's sad is to hear about the mid 30s folks wanting to get plastic surgery to look younger, which just validates and perpetuates the continuous youth culture. May not be possible to fight it at the Facebooks and Googles of the world, but it shouldn't be this bad...