On: 135M messages a second between processes in Java (...

[formula1]

Java really isnt that bad. I think the biggest issue surrounding it is a package manager, better ui/templating language and a more obvious/documented import and linking api. Outside of that it isnt too bad

Edit : also events were annoying in 7. I dont have a particular interest in creating a class just to act as a listener. I believe 8 introduced lambdas which is nice

[aeroevan → formula1]

Java 8 with lambdas and streams is actually fairly nice to program. It's still Java, but it is much better than it was before Java 8.

Maven is complicated, but Java 9 with project jigsaw might help things out on the packaging side.

I don't do ui or any templating in java (analytics and simulations) so don't really know what's going on in those areas.

[Pxtl → aeroevan]

Is Java planning on custom primitives analogous to c# structs, or is copy-by-value semantics still the exclusive province of the core language primitives?

[bitmapbrother → Pxtl]

Yes. Value Types, Reified Generics and Generic Specialization (e.g. List<int>) will all be in Java 10.

[kasey_junk → Pxtl]

Project Valhalla is supposedly bringing value types to the JVM.

[agibsonccc → aeroevan]

I'd consider maybe looking at gradle then. The awesome thing about maven is it is os agnostic and is at least stable.

Most of the jvm libs are stored in maven central.

[_asummers → agibsonccc]

Gradle is fantastic to work with. Groovy is nice when you need it, but the DSL is just much better to work with than Maven.

[vorg → _asummers]

Gradle 3, due out soon, will use Kotlin instead of Apache Groovy as its prefered language for writing build scripts and plugins.

[durub → vorg]

It just got released! https://github.com/gradle/gradle/releases

[_asummers → vorg]

Ooooh how exciting! I like that a lot. I can find this out myself, but what do they plan on doing with existing Groovy plugins for gradle pipelines?

[fn1 → vorg]

...which will make it completely typesafe.

[mablap → formula1]

I'm not saying Java is bad or not. All I'm saying is that, from my perspective, why should I bother? It just seems very big and unwieldy and if I'm not going to do these JVM optimizations anyway, why bother?

It's really just an impression.

[formula1 → mablap]

Forces you to 100% commit to oop paradime. Often much easier to test and more clean than counterparts. Its used in enterprises for a reason.