>His real life and his virtual life were completely separate.
Whoa, whoa, whoa - that's maybe something a person like Eris would say, as some kind of defense, but even after faking suicide, getting a fresh start, and going back? No, they're not separate. That's an addiction[1].
This whole story reads like a functioning heroin addict who finally can't hold it all together anymore. I completely understand there's a great deal of trauma and history to acknowledge - depression and physiological issues are not minor things to be brushed aside in discussion. Context does matter.
All that noted, what a selfish way to go through life. What a perfect example of lessons to teach young people about interactions online, in that shared community values (morals? ethics?) aren't baked into the online experience - in fact, quite the opposite. The freedom can be abused, and having some personal buffer zones is important, otherwise a person will end up lying to themselves and others like Eris, saying that they have a real life, which is just one of the many lies they will tell to make themselves feel better.
[1] Speaking from experience in online gaming community multiplayer Half-Life, which was a significant social outlet in conjuntion with the GamersX and eventual stand-alone [R]age Board for Elites. A lot of this story is familiar, both good and bad memories. RIP Neo Babson Maximus.
Some people just like it. It's not an addiction, there's no "reason", it's just fun to be a dick online. Why does nobody ever think of this? There always has to be some sort of grand underlying psychological reason.
You're reaching much too deep into it, even comparing it to Heroine addiction. Just, wow.
I think you're missing the point. If someone gets off on being a dick to other people in any context, whether it's online or in person, then that person has a psychological problem. They are under the impression that what they do online is not connected with "real life", and they enjoy being a dick to other people. Both of those things are very negative qualities for a kid to have (although not uncommon, because kids), but if someone still has both of those qualities as an adult then yes, it is absolutely a symptom of a psychological problem.
As noted I was basing some things on personal experience and observations, so while he might "just like" being a dick online there's this thing called biology which can influence why we like the things we like.
>You're reaching much too deep into it, even comparing it to Heroine addiction. Just, wow.
If you're going to talk down at me, at least spell heroin right or don't bother. I'm already familiar with the Greater Internet F-Wad Theory.
Because someone who would go to those lengths to just 'be a dick online' has an underlying psychological problem. They get off on it, and it's not something a healthy society should want to continue.
(a) everyone universally fantasizes about nonconformity at one time or another (go ahead, disagree),
(b) almost everyone has too much of a stake in their life to actually follow through on it, so they bottle it up,
(c) a number of hobbies exist to "blow off [that] steam" or otherwise find catharsis, but not everyone finds these,
(d) those who troll like this have found their hobby that works for them and are actually more psychologically healthy than those who have not.
Just a theory. I've known some trolls who are easily among the smartest, sanest people in the world, and who are totally normal in all other aspects of their lives. Some are dear friends. This activity has been described in these terms by more than one of them. Countercultural behavior is practically a rhythm throughout history, and trolling is the Internet's counterculture, which can be mean because of anonymity. Some people go too far with it, yes. Some people go too far with anything, though.
My point is be careful ascribing psychological illness to something you do not understand. That is crazy. Trolls don't care what you think. If you and many others respond by calling them crazy, what are you really saying? Think about it. Appealing to a good and decent society that ought to do something about this menace is pretty strange, too.
I have trolled before. I'm not good at it, but I have. I can vouch for the positive feeling it produces and I've come to terms with what that means about me and my self. This is the thesis of numerous psychological works as well as, say, Fight Club (it's uncanny how well that story fits the big points I hit on, including taking it too far and plurality of self, and I don't think anyone disagrees that Palahniuk was onto something).
False. Trolls derive joy from the grief of others that they have inflicted. That's what trolling is. See also: Sadism
Being a 'Contrarian' is different than trolling, but that takes some mental work to see how it can be constructive rather than simply a knee-jerk habit to elicit a negative response.
>False. Trolls derive joy from the grief of others that they have inflicted. That's what trolling is. See also: Sadism
You are trying to frame something fundamentally illogical, logically. Trolling just is. It's narcissism at its peak.
Trolling is the opposite of charisma. It's making your point in an extremely childish and negative way instead of educating someone on something and getting them to see your point of view. It's step 1 of persuasion, except most people have moved past this phase subconsciously (as in obviously name calling and acting like a baby won't get you what you want) and those who haven't, are branded as trolls.
A real troll you wouldn't even know. The idea is to get your entire mentality in the tip of their finger so they can wind you up and down whenever they need to.
I think taking any sort of behavior we don't like and saying obviously no decent person could enjoy it therefore it's only for those who are pathological[0] betrays a gross misunderstanding of decency. It is in fact fun for normal people to act like a dick, in the same way that it's fun to shoot roadsigns or piss on the sidewalk.
The reason we don't do these things is a mixture of training (we all know doing these things will make society worse off, perhaps we personally don't like it when we're driving along and a roadsign has been shot up), consequences (people will probably think less of you for urinating on sidewalks, it's illegal, etc) and maybe a healthy dose of inbuilt aesthetic and moral standards, empathy (how much and to what extent these really end up resulting in object-level actions as opposed to determining on what axis object level actions will be inhibited doesn't seem clear cut to me).
People who are willing to go around dominating and exploiting others for the sake of mere petty cruelty are unpleasant, the common term is 'bully'. Few people would want to be on the receiving end of it. Most people find this behavior less than charming. There is also the element of personal danger, who wants to be around somebody that might manipulate them for fun? So it makes sense to play up how different we are from such people, because that shows others how righteous and safe we are to be around. However as the child with the magnifying glass who burns ants shows, the capacity for petty cruelty is within all of us.
[0]: There are some behaviors which are pretty much reserved for pathological people, but the set is probably smaller than we imagine.
I'm very surprised you're getting downvoted for this, since it's basic psychology, the basic human condition, and unequivocally correct. Do people really not understand the human condition? It's a very powerful thing once you come to grips with it and quantify its role in your life, and it was key in me shedding a lot of parts of my self that I did not want.
I personally believe it's important to accept it instead of trying to deny it, before you can progress toward the positive role you want from your life. How can you be good if you don't understand your ingrained propensity for bad? How can you control something you do not understand?
You should heed what this comment is saying and think about it, rather than try to be 'above' it. It's accepting yourself...
I think you're right in general, but keep in mind that my question was in response to this quote:
"The idea is to get your entire mentality in the tip of their finger so they can wind you up and down whenever they need to."
Let's deconstruct this:
- get your entire mentality in the tip of their finger.
- wind you up and down when they need to.
The first part of that is an extreme level of control. The second point hinges on the word 'need'.
The OP previously claimed that he/she knows many trolls and they are among the most intelligent and sanest (his/her words) people he/she knows. This comment does not jive with that.
Wait, wait, wait. Hold the phone. You're going after me for glorifying trolling, you say (I very clearly wasn't; I was cautioning against throwing mental health around as it complicates understanding), and you subtly included an inference that GamerGate was, quote, 'hurt' by trolls and we just needed to 'let the facts sit?' Oh, boy.
The incongruity of you defending one of the Internet's largest havens in history for trolls to demean, harass, and harm women by threatening to rape or kill them simply for being involved in video gaming, by then going after me for "glorifying" trolling and complaining that trolling harms people, is probably the most shockingly hilarious irony I've ever seen in my life. That's not hyperbole. You just seriously used GamerGate to attack trolling, which is either the work of the most master troll I have ever seen or, as seems more likely, your genuinely and outstandingly horrible opinion. I can't even comprehend the thought process that would take you there.
HN is definitely not the place to positively speak of GamerGate; I don't know about others, but I don't want anybody to ever speak of GamerGate positively again, and I'd extend this to even hiring if I could get away with asking about it.
So you believe what the media tells you about GamerGate? Because there's pretty clear evidence that regardless of your side in this debate, there was a decent chance you'd be trolled, bullied or doxed because of it.
Just see the many, many examples of people getting attacked on Twitter or Reddit or other sites for supporting it, to the point there were some people trying to frame others for crimes because they supported it.
And no, the majority of them do not attack or harass women because of it. The majority of them are sick of the media strawman constructed that anyone who disagrees with their ideas of censorship should be attacked at all costs.
And if you're trying to blacklist people because of political fights they get in, then I'm sorry, but that's pretty damn sleazy. It's exactly why there's so many issues in certain industries, because certain people want to blackball anyone who disagrees with their politics.
At what point does that behavior become escapism, especially given that these actions took place on a forum for a game where you're very explicitly allowed to be trollish?
Whoa, whoa, whoa - that's maybe something a person like Eris would say, as some kind of defense, but even after faking suicide, getting a fresh start, and going back? No, they're not separate. That's an addiction[1].
This whole story reads like a functioning heroin addict who finally can't hold it all together anymore. I completely understand there's a great deal of trauma and history to acknowledge - depression and physiological issues are not minor things to be brushed aside in discussion. Context does matter.
All that noted, what a selfish way to go through life. What a perfect example of lessons to teach young people about interactions online, in that shared community values (morals? ethics?) aren't baked into the online experience - in fact, quite the opposite. The freedom can be abused, and having some personal buffer zones is important, otherwise a person will end up lying to themselves and others like Eris, saying that they have a real life, which is just one of the many lies they will tell to make themselves feel better.
[1] Speaking from experience in online gaming community multiplayer Half-Life, which was a significant social outlet in conjuntion with the GamersX and eventual stand-alone [R]age Board for Elites. A lot of this story is familiar, both good and bad memories. RIP Neo Babson Maximus.