The appeal of physical labor? People only do physical labor because they are either unlucky or simply lack the knowledge to choose another path. I don't expect that to be the popular perspective on "PC" hacker news but that is the real world for you. Show me a gardener who wouldn't want to make 6 figures instead of breaking their back day in and day out for close to if not minimum wage? Appeal? Yeah right.
I disagree with your POV.I would rather say that everyone likes a change.Most of the programmers have very active lifestyle where they pursue physical labour based hobbies.To bring in an age-old platitude , "Everything is good in moderation" .You have extremes like a person who decided to leave programming to become a farmer[1].
And several other examples like this exist.What you need to understand is the satisfaction which comes from making things.
I love programming solely because of my ability to create. Infact I feel that it is the ability to create that would drive any job.A skilled artisan pursues his interest because of the satisfaction he obtains from his creations.The same goes for us programmers.
It comes down to the fact of skilled labour possessed by you.And if you really think that blue collar workers earn less,then you are quite mistaken[2].
TLDR; its the passion for creation which drives any job.As a programmer having things setup in hours or weeks and then seeing your product being used by a percentage of the 3 billion people[3] who use the www.It brings a hell load of satisfaction in me.
I see your POV but simply don't think it's realistic. Not to mention the salaries you linked are, as far as I can tell, lower than most 'white collar' jobs.
Most gardeners, plumbers, construction workers etc. are NOT artisans. They are just normal people trying to get by as best as they can with the means that they have. They often have lower level of education etc. etc. This is the real world. Not to mention that most programmers don't actually like programming... it's just the myth perpetuated on these (and other alike) boards. These are 90% of programmers that aren't on HN etc. They just don't care. They don't love programming at all - it's just their job.
This passion for creation is great - but it's simply too idealistic. Most people hate their damn jobs and hate it mostly because of how exhausting it is to make not very much money.
You are right. But... I'd be a gardener. If it paid me the same I make now. At least for 3 months a year?
I worked at Lowes in college hauling lumber and I miss it dearly (rose colored goggles and all). I was in the best shape of my life, I didn't think about work (lumber?) at home. It was a simpler life.
If you could make 6 figures, I think a decent chunk of people would prefer it to doing office work and making 6 figures. Anyway, the point is that some amount of physical labor as part of your daily life helps make you feel less like a slug. And for some people having that labor not strictly be exercise is compelling.
I used to landscape - and if it were practical, I'd go back to it. There was a lot about that work that was very satisfying. I wouldn't give up on programming, but it would be something I did just for fun and/or side profit.
Do you know people who do that kind of work? I spent three years working with a decent sampling of them. Sure, some feel that it's drudge work and that they're stuck doing it for lack of options. They get through their day doing the minimum necessary - you can find those types in our field as well. But a lot do take real pride in what they do, and in doing it well.
Of course many if not most would take an office job for more money if they opportunity were there - but that doesn't mean none of them derive pleasure and satisfaction form the work they're doing.
I'm not quite saying that it's not possible to derive pleasure and satisfaction from physically laborious work. I am saying that it's a very pretty picture that's far away from real life to claim that that's normal. Most people do not like their job. Most people don't like their job as PROGRAMMERS.
What fantasy world is everyone living in that they love their jobs and derive pleasure from it? What 1%'s of gardeners are we talking about here? I assure you 99% of them would rather not be gardening.
It's very likely if you are doing a physically laborious job you are making very little money, struggling to feed your family, give your kids the spoils they want, your wife is mad that you can't take her on vacation etc. etc.
I don't know about gardening, but I've certainly sacrificed financially in order to be able to farm. When you consider the huge capital costs, you have to love it. Anyone who doesn't love it would be far better off selling out.
Granted, it isn't that physically demanding. The biggest amount of labour I find is repairing/modifying equipment, and that comes with interesting problem solving challenges, which my programmer mindset tends to enjoy.
Still, I can see why gardening would be seen as appealing.
> your wife is mad that you can't take her on vacation
Why would anyone get mad about that? My wife is a grown adult, she can pay for her own vacation. Farming is my vacation.
The gardener example is extreme, but not all physical labor is minimum wage. I have friends that have traded their cushy 6 figure knowledge worker jobs for more down to earth jobs where they work with their hands. From what I can tell, they have traded short term monetary gain for long term happiness, and it definitively has its appeal.
and the realities of the job economy is exactly why "not PC"?
of course physical labor does not pay as much, as long as the pool of workers is significantly larger. Doesn't mean that some folks would choose another career path if other fields would pay as much as software engineering does.
I've made this point elsewhere. But I consider this the realistic view that comes from a good amount of experience and simply using my eyes.
You say narrow - I say broad. For most people the 'job' they do is just a thing that brings money in. They have no feelings towards it - it's just a thing they do. They are more concerned with their family, their relationships in general, how they are going to support their kids, how are they going to pay their damn bills etc. etc.
Under this condition I find it hilarious for someone to justify -- sitting from their computer screen with an IDE open on the other monitor no doubt -- the fantasy happiness that can be had from doing a lower paying and physically more challenging job. I don't know gardening, but I do know construction, intimately, and imagine that gardening as a profession is not too entirely different. Most people who do these jobs are not doing it for some fantasy happiness. They are doing it out of necessity.
