> Microsoft (GSL + static analysis, C++/CX, System C#, .NET Native) and Apple (Swift) are already working on what might be their next systems programming language.
Swift at least isn't in the same space as Rust. It's a fully garbage-collected language.
> Remember, languages are a tiny portion of the whole eco-system. Tools, libraries and community play a bigger role.
And Rust has the most memory-safe low-level systems code available today. It also has Cargo and crates.io, which allow that code to be easily reused.
By contrast, existing C++ code isn't safe C++ code. It will have to be ported, often by drastically altering the idioms in use, and that takes a lot of time.
"Swift is a successor to both the C and Objective-C languages."
Mesa/Cedar at Xerox PARC was also systems programming language with RC.
Going back to my comment "Remember, languages are a tiny portion of the whole eco-system. Tools, libraries and community play a bigger role.".
<devil advocate mode>
Give me Swift like Playground, Instruments integration, XCode and LLDB integration. Ability to call any Mac API the same way Swift does. Then maybe our customers will request Rust for our iDevices projects.
Give me Visual Studio integration, ability to define WinRT controls like C++/CX, create and debug COM like VC++, mixed mode debugging with .NET. Then maybe our customers will request Rust for our Windows projects.
</devil advocate mode>
Again, I am pretty aware that Rust is way better than half baked solutions like GSL + static analysis, but I have quite a few grey hairs already.
My first C++ compiler was Turbo C++ 1.0 for MS-DOS, remember when it was just released?
I also remember when C had zero presence on home computers.
Which means I was there when Ada, Modula-2, Modula-3, Oberon and derivatives were steam rolled by OS vendors betting the house in C.
As an early C++ adopter, I also carry quite a few flame war scars from being on the C++ side of the fence back on those days (vs C). As I always advocated for the C++ improved safety over what C offers.
> And Rust has the most memory-safe low-level systems code available today.
I agree, but do the OS vendors that sell the SDKs we are allowed to use, also agree or will hide their head on the sand and do another round of "worse is better" with their tools?
> By contrast, existing C++ code isn't safe C++ code. It will have to be ported, often by drastically altering the idioms in use, and that takes a lot of time.
Yes, but the eco-system is already here. Which means most companies will rather endure a slow Python 2 to Python 3 code re-factoring than move to another language.
I really want Rust to succeed and be the language I can use whenever I have to go outside JVM, .NET and mobile worlds.
However I have seen too many nice languages become victim of "worse is better" syndrome.
So sorry if my type of "heads up comment" isn't welcome.
> "Swift is a successor to both the C and Objective-C languages."
Saying something doesn't automatically make it true... however, I believe it is in this case, but maybe not to the degree the quote/you imply: it seems to me that current Swift may not be the best choice for say, writing the kernel itself, or extremely demanding components like a JS engine/the core of a web-browser.
> Remember, languages are a tiny portion of the whole eco-system. Tools, libraries and community play a bigger role
NB. the Rust leadership understands this: it's part of why crates.io was an early investment (and literally an investment: Mozilla put money into it), and why there's a pile of efforts towards improving tooling, including IDE integration.
> So sorry if my type of "heads up comment" isn't welcome.
Well... you do make a comment along these lines on essentially every Rust thread here, so it may be getting a bit repetitive at this point.
Maybe because since the mid-90's I have seen any safer alternative that I liked being steamrolled by the C and C++ duo, where the authors shared the same enthusiasm.
I will abstain from such comments from now on, hopefully Rust will succeed where the others failed.
Swift at least isn't in the same space as Rust. It's a fully garbage-collected language.
> Remember, languages are a tiny portion of the whole eco-system. Tools, libraries and community play a bigger role.
And Rust has the most memory-safe low-level systems code available today. It also has Cargo and crates.io, which allow that code to be easily reused.
By contrast, existing C++ code isn't safe C++ code. It will have to be ported, often by drastically altering the idioms in use, and that takes a lot of time.