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Ask HN: Is it the industry or is it me?
11 points by casegg 16 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 25 comments
Hey all, I wanted to make this thread to hopefully spark a discussion about junior / entry-level developers and starting a career in software engineering (post-Covid).

Here's the problem, and what I wanted to start a discussion about: After over 300 applications, I haven't even landed a single interview. I know this is a pain that many other new grads have faced and are still facing, and I want to hear other programmers' stories, anecdotes, inputs and opinions on this, whether you're a senior dev with over 10 years' experience, or a new grad like me.

For some context, I've been using computers since as long as I can remember, my parents worked in tech my entire life, and I "started" coding around 12 years ago in highschool. I wrote "started" in quotations because it was about as much as you can learn from a highschool-level program from the year 2012-onwards on the subject of programming; I'm talking pure HTML/CSS/JS, some Java and a bit of C#.

Since then, I've continued to work on projects here and there but I never took programming seriously, that is, until about a year and a half ago. I had originally settled onto a career path I thought I wanted (Audio Engineering), but after graduating, I quickly realized that it was not a path I wanted to follow. Most of my friends are programmers, and I had previous experience with it, so I chose to go with something that had pretty much circled me my entire life: Technology, more specifically, Software Development. I applied to an intensive (1 year) AEC program, and it was during that course that I quickly found out that I love programming. I also found out that I learned the subjects very easily (who knew that learning about things you're passionate about could be so effective!) and so I started studying on my own, and working on personal projects early on in the course. I graduated with honor role in February of this year, and I now have many personal projects that I've worked on, an artistic portfolio hosted on my domain and honestly, a pretty good Github profile for a junior dev. I've gotten extremely familiar with frontend languages and frameworks, SQL databases and ORMs, and quite familiar with building computer/mobile applications (Java, Kotlin, Swift, etc). Since last year, I likely average around 8-9 hours a day coding projects, practicing on hackerrank and leetcode, or studying programming on my own time.

I feel like despite my lack of experience, I've done so much in just a year that I consider impressive, and I feel unable to express this employers because I can't seem to get a single interview. I've gone to job fairs, applied on every single website there is, and I can't seem to succeed. It feels like all those 10-14 hour coding sessions filled with passion and hope that I destroyed my mental health over in order to land a job after graduating were all for naught, and the weight of that realization is starting to feel absolutely crushing. I tell myself, "at least if I was able to land interviews, the rejections mean there's room for improvement", but since I can't land any, it means the problem is elsewhere and I just can't figure out what. Are my applications even reaching human recruiters, or is it AI rejecting me automatically? Who knows.. When I apply, it feels like I'm just hoping for a miracle that I can even reach somebody I can speak to and get to prove myself as a developer.

To any developers who have ever asked themselves "Is it the industry or is it me?", what are your thoughts on that question? If you're an established developer now, was it the industry, or your mindset, or both? What changed?




The industry see your CV, your git repo and your portfolio, if you don't have a second call in 300 applications it means either you're talking to the wrong people regarding your profile, or your profile is not appealing and work need to be done.

I did an incomplete thesis on a niche research subject, traveled for month, switched to the industry now and even with that not so attractive profile from an industry POV, I was able to get second calls. But I'm not a dev, so maybe dev market is saturated idk.

edit: after looking at your CV, I can confirm that you could change some things such as:

- emphasize your projects, they are less promoted than your professional experiences yet they are more important!

- missing softskills, human ressources will look at it. Even basic things like "teamwork" or "dynamic" is worth to mention.

- ideally, every skills should appear inside a project too.

- Change or remove first sentence. change "always had passion", it's not true as you saiid in your post. Trade passion for motivation in any case. Add one where you say what you are looking for in your new job. Adapt it to the company eventually.

- Jobs details could be shorter as they are not related to the actual position you're looking for. Remember, only put usefull information.

- Do you have license driving? Also add your current location and mobility (obviously not in the public version)

I hope it will help you and that you'll land your first interview soon.


Thank you very much for the advice!

I agree with your points, and I'll update my CV to reflect those changes. I knew the CV was likely the weak point but I just wasn't sure in what ways to change it, so your advice gives me hope.


Make sure you don't have one resume. If you are applying to a backend Java application, make sure that the first skills in your list are applicable for back end Java and expand on relevant projects. Likewise, if you're applying to a front end JavaScript position, then have that be the thing you lead with.

On the other side of the table, here's an applicant showing JavaScript things for a backend Java position... and a bunch more that have Java first. The JavaScript focused resume isn't likely to get a second look.

Make sure that your resume reflects the position that you are applying for.


It's rough right now, we've been in a funding lull for years.

A lot of the more experienced developers (mid-millennial age) entered their careers riding the wave of the invention of smartphones and social media not to mention modern web, games, advertising, etc. There was so much work and funding to do the work.

The world changed after the Obama years, funding was largely yanked out of tech, except for self-funded types and hype cycles like crypto and AI. Most of tech sort of merged with "status quo" work - it's not special anymore. Most companies don't budget that much for engineers, or any staff.

There's a chance it will bounce back - I can't imagine Netflix is going to just let us have something like:

  output a Tarantino film set in a cyberpunk future starring Bruce Willis and Uma Thurman in their prime with a cameo from Ariana Grande who plays the crime lord's daughter
Without putting up a fight. So I believe it's worth holding out hope that there will be another "boom" very soon where companies are scrambling and hiring engineers like crazy again - that is, I think AI models show some promise disruption-wise.

For now, it's self-funded egomaniac founders and boring work for low pay. There's no advice I can give you on interviewing other than it's a numbers game. Every company gets like 1000+ applicants right now, it's ridiculous. You have to know somebody.


You need to go in real life and talk to real people.

Visit any user group from any programming language and just be present, at first maybe you won't talk to anyone, but with time you may find somebody that is older than you and could offer you an opportunity.

It isn't the lack of skills that is holding you back, it's the networking. I'm sure if you find the first opportunity you'll catch up to whatever is needed fast, all you need is that first opportunity.

In the current market there are too many folks doing like you, sending CVs and waiting. This clearly don't work.


I've worked in the IT industry (Sydney AU) for decades. It has never been this bad in getting work/contracts. Unless you score 10/10 on the keyword bingo, you won't even get a phone call back. For every contract I have applied for, there were 100+ other applicants.

I had a look at your CV. There's nothing there to catch tech recruiter's attention. For example you could recast your various projects in terms of what you deliver as a benefit to a potential employer. Going remote is generally only viable if you have specific valued skills to offer.


I am not a dev but there is obviously a supply vs demand problem or you would at least be getting a single interview.

There is also a marketing problem in that everyone thinks they have to do the same thing to stand out but if you are doing the same thing as everyone else then you are doing the opposite of standing out.

At one point in my career when I was struggling to get interviews, I gave up and decided the jobs available to me are the ones my friends can help me get. You will amaze yourself with how much more effort you put into your network when you take the internet posting jobs off the table.

There is also much to be said for being able to program but doing something else besides pure software engineer.

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It took me 6 years since I started coding to get a proper job as a software engineer. Before that I had created dozens of websites (some of them got revenue through ads) and many delivered successfully many freelancing gigs. Which at least half of them led me to work for free as it was very common to get scammed in the beginning. The market was almost nonexistent at the time in my country and remote working was a luxury not even discussed yet.

It is funny that we think that this beginning we had it easier than the current "I've done 1 year of coding bootcamp, where is my 6 figures job" mindset.


Don't be discouraged in such a competitive world these things usually happen. I understand that you need to put more effort into introspection, the question you ask would be the first step. You need to diagnose why you are being ignored by employers. Think of it as debugging practice. Regardless, I wish you all the best in your search for that dream job. You have a lot of work, don't give up.


>I feel like despite my lack of experience,

find FOSS projects maintained by Big Tech and find ways to contribute value to those projects, this will get your foot in the door and will overcome the lack of experience and get you immediate attention from those already inside. This is a problem of visibility, not skill. The reality is that it's very difficult to get your message out when you're competing with so much other noise.


This is a hard way to go, unless you are really very confident in your skills.

OP, I would recommend trying to reach out directly for referrals on LinkedIn instead if you are not already. That will at least make it likely your resume will get looked at. It is correct that you have a visibility problem, not a skills one.


Even with skills there's more than meets the eye to contributing to FOSS. You usually have to be in their Discord, have survived their mods long enough for people to appreciate your presence and help you provide.

To get a PR in you have to be pretty actively using the project and be lucky enough to spot an issue worth fixing. Either that or you're going through Issues trying to find something important enough that someone isn't working on.

Let's say you find the thing, you fork the repo (because you aren't on the team) make the change, open the PR, then it's back to Discord trying to get someone to look at the PR. Sometimes a miracle happens and they approve the PR, but you still aren't allowed to merge it, gotta usually bother them one last time to merge it.

Worth it if it's a project you use all the time and you truly understand the codebase, I do this all the time with stuff I use, but nearly impossible if you're an outsider just trying to get a PR merged on something you don't use especially in a well-known repo.


OP states that they have gone through "After over 300 applications, I haven't even landed a single interview." This may be a "hard" way to go, but it is certainly a way to consider to prove yourself. You can reach out directly for referrals but not just can anyone do that, you have people who game the system with AI which adds to the noise (I can imagine a simple system with Large Language Model and a Large Action Model could be easily setup to repeat the process to request referrals on LinkedIn). Not everyone can create immediate value and this isn't something obvious to consider and why I suggest OP to do so.


Thank you for the advice.

I've done that a few times for jobs i was particularly excited to apply for, but didn't think about it from the perspective you mentioned. I'll definitely do that from now on.


I managed to stumble across my first contribution to a popular open source project about 2 months ago but haven't actively looked for one since. It could be worthwhile to take another look, but it's hard to not feel the imposter syndrome.


Yeah especially in that scenario. Do something super trendy with LLMs or procedural pixel art or something and do a Show HN.

Looking at nuance.js you seem to like writing libraries. The JavaScript side of AI needs lots of help with little utilities and stuff like this!

I think a project + Show HN would:

- build confidence

- get eyes and feedback on your work

- increase your legitmacy to others ultimately resulting in people contacting you

Make it a point to show Hacker News something awesome every Friday until you get a job, would give you a metronome and carrot-on-a-stick at least - "hope" I think they call it


Nobody should work for free, especially not for the wealthiest companies in the world.


You shouldn't have to game the system to get a job either, 300 application should be more than enough but it is not so. If I were desperate for work, it would also mean I have an abundance of time and I would use this time focused on those projects because it is one way I can think of to prove my business value. Focus on the root problem, that is find ways getting hired in the first place. You may not like my way but it is a definitive way


Within this tech gloomy you really need to find connnections, however you can. Friends, families, whatever, just ask around. Buy people meals, ask for advices, do whatever you can to squeeze into the industry.


Your resume is the problem.


If your parents are working in tech and your friends are programmers why apply to random unknown jobs? Can't you just use their network to get recommended to somewhere? Why fight the firewall when you can avoid it?


If you're applying to frontend stuff, every monkey can do that.

If you really like programming, sink your teeth into C and C++ and Linux and look for jobs using those. I think it's much more rewarding internally, and, externally, there's a shortage of talent in programming that isn't using the latest corporate Products--I mean languages/frameworks (Java/C#/Go/Node/React/Angular). ;p


I did really like programming, and sunk my teeth int C, C++ and Linux, and did get jobs using those.

I considered C / Linux (syscalls, shell scripting, etc) to be the "fundamentals" / foundational layer, that every higher-level language/fad was built on top of.

I now realize I was basically wrong, all that stuff is now abstracted away as "cloud" or hidden under kubernetes / docker or whatever, and while my experience doesn't hurt... there are lots of people who are clueless with command line, Linux, C, malloc, etc., that get their job done just fine. There are amazingly few jobs for C, C++, Linux these days, when you consider the amount of existing software written for those.

I enjoyed the culture around those things, but as career, it's not the future.

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counterpoint: don't keep doors closed by being dismissive of other peoples' careers/interests like this person


Very true. Only be like me if your mind has permanently fallen into a singularity of cynical acrimony -- and probably only if you're privileged enough to afford to let it do that.




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