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It's important to note that "Bokmål" and "Nynorsk" are only written forms of the language, and depending on where you grow up the dialect of Norwegian you speak will be closer to "Bokmål" or "Nynorsk".

If I remember correctly from Norwegian classes growing up, Bokmål is heavily influenced by written Danish. Nynorsk was based on dialects people spoke outside of the bigger cities. Nynorsk however is more of an amalgamation of dialects, and can not be said to be spoken by anyone. Your estimation is in the neighborhood of native writers of Nynorsk I believe.


It’ll be interesting to see Pirelli taking a market share in the cloud.


CoC is such a strange document. All I’ve seen it do is sit in a repo as a flag post. When I see a license document it gets me thinking about what intentions the project is released with, but when I see a CoC document all I do is mentally filter it out and go about my day..

One would think it could leave some sense about the maintainer(s) being decent in some way. Instead I’m just left with a feeling of coercion if anything.

It just shouldn’t be necessary to “present” yourself as a decent person as the author of some code.

Some document in a project folder online doesn’t make you or me better people. It seems to me more of a futile (and stupid) gesture if anything.

We need to spend our time actually doing decent things, and being decent people. Putting a document in our projects telling others that we are doesn’t really change that.

A standardized way of telling others you are a certain way, doesn’t make you so. It relieves us of putting in the effort if anything.

/idealistic early morning rant over


I know this is controversial, but I still love SQLite's old code of conduct (now 'code of ethics'[1]). Its based on some old religious text. If you skip the religious bits, the rest is extremely wholesome. I much prefer it over most projects' CoCs - I've never seen much benefit in spending a lot of words to say "please be civil".

> Be a help in times of trouble.

> Do not return evil for evil.

I will try, for you SQLite! :D

[1] https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html


> 30. Do no wrong to anyone, and bear patiently wrongs done to yourself.

This one is similar to "be conservative in what you say and liberal in what you accept from others"[1], but worded better.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle


I like this approach


Reading CoCs they are usually full of language that you would expect people would have already learned in Kindergarden. Unfortunately there are too many grown-ups around that seem to not have internalized these things, so while I don't like the patronizing myself, I see some value in writing down a set of "if you wanna collaborate here, please respect these rules".

And while you are right, the code itself doesn't care, there are lot's of interactions around producing that code that are between humans, where behaviour is important.

It's not much different from the guidelines that exist for this very site: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I mean, that is a kind of code of condcut, too.


>Unfortunately there are too many grown-ups around that seem to not have internalized these things

This is true, but they wont read the CoC. And even if they do, they won't follow it. If someone can't practice basic decency, a txt file won't change them. Its an entirely futile effort at best and more likely a virtue signal than actually trying to improve things.

The only thing that works is strict moderation. You don't need a CoC for that.


I agree that a CoC by itself doesn't do anything. But if you want to do strict moderation, you need to put in place some rules that you can use to guide moderation and to make it transparent what the rules ares whch govern this moderation.

Otherwise you end up with arbitrarily enforced rules, created ad-hoc by whoever is doing the enforcing, without a way to know what they are or a way to appeal if you feel wrongly moderated.


> a way to appeal if you feel wrongly moderated.

Good. Otherwise people will pretend to be a laywer and talk about how _technically_ the rules don't say specifically what they did. Its a waste of time.

But really, in all my time on github and gitlab I have never seen an actual contributor violate common sense and common decency. The only shitty things I have seen have been anon users piling in on issue threads which have gone viral and in that case you just limit the repo to contributors only.


> We need to spend our time actually doing decent things, and being decent people.

Is this mutually exclusive to stopping people doing bad things and being bad people though?


You don't really need a CoC to do that.


I'm curious how you plan to run a community without formalizing the rules that are expected to be followed somewhere. Restaurants generally have a sign outlining dress and language expectations, why is it so controversial to document community behavior expectations?

There are a number of internet communities which essentially have this in the opposite form - as in "getting insulted is expected, no we are not going to do anything about it".

This was the de facto Linux mailing list way for a bit, and was somewhat documented in a lot of "how to interact and what to expect on LKML" guides.


Is "don't be a dick" not enough? For a long while there was a group of militant people hell bent on having everyone keep a CoC in their repos and ironically being the more intrusive and rude force themselves. I don't think any such document I've read has had any more substance or achieved much beyond the initial kerfuffle


People don't agree what's being a dick and what's not.


> Is "don't be a dick" not enough?

If everyone is going to act in good faith the whole time, sure, it's fine. But as soon as you get one person acting in bad faith, it all falls apart - see the current Republican Party, for example.


Definitely not. My impression though, is that the people who care about their conduct might read the document, and others will just gloss over it anyway. The energy is better spent elsewhere .


“Visionary leader fallacy”


This is becoming a regular occurrence by now..

I wonder if reliability has become less of a priority. As somebody with little to no experience of running things at scale I’m finding myself attributing this to some form of “move fast and break things”.


Nobody remembers the unicorn days? Earlier in GitHub's history, it seemed like a weekly outage was the norm. You just kind of expected it and built workflows in ways where you had a backup path to your code.

Often git operations were unaffected though.


Given that the change happened in the mid-morning PST (timezone where GitHub HQ and most devs are located), I'm going to bet it's almost certainly something messed up from a regular update or deployment.


I remember something after their acquisition about new offers being lower than what certain people had previously, leading to important staff members leaving. This and some other issue I can't quite remember ... it was probably posted on HN :)


good point; I think they might be deploying big features on fridays? as of late I've noticed most of the issues I have seen happen on Fridays.


Why would that be the case? Shouldn't it be more common to find deployments happening early Monday morning? It's common practice to avoid potentially bug-inducing changes right before the weekend hits


If you’re trying to minimize impact to employees you deploy Monday or Tuesday morning.

If you’re trying to minimize impact to business customers you deploy Friday night.


Yea exactly , Tuesdays are the ideal days to ship features, this has always been the case everywhere I've worked. Deployments on Friday is just asking for pain and Mondays are often too chaotic for a release..


Because they likely get a large number of users doing git pull first thing Monday morning.


> I’m finding myself attributing this to some form of “move fast and break things”

That was the case when they were the small and hungry startup.

Meanwhile they've been acquired by a giant corporation with a less than stellar reputation for reliability or quality. So it's most likely a case actually of "move slow and break things".


>stellar reputation for reliability or quality

That is unfair Minesweeper never crashed, and the printspooler is not up for debate here ;)


I agree, but this needs to be sorted with regulation, and not blaming Twitter for doing bad when they're able to do what they want on their platform.


Ditto


"!g" in DDG is the flag that redirects your search to Google.


pipenv solves some of the chaos. I do agree though. One right way of setting things up would do wonders.


And pipenv is getting better. Recently thete has been a push of improvement. It still has its issues though. Pipenv or Poetry? Time will tell. Poetry needs to parallelize.


Last time I tried to use pipenv it was a mess. Poetry worked fine though.


Yeah, trouble is it always depends on the system for me. At home, pipenv seems to work most reliably, at work I had more success with poetry...

Still, both poetry and pipenv work better for me than conda because they do have a lockfile mechanism which I find to be essential.


Wasn't pipenv abandoned for like a year or two? Is it actually back now?


The original author has a habit of abandoning software projects after a while. But I think they managed to get it into the pypa docs (python packaging 'authority'), and so I guess someone has brought it back.


I believe, after some conflict with the community, the original author divested himself of all his F/OSS projects. This resulted in pipenv being donated to the pypa GitHub org. Since then, the project appears to be seeing sporadic development through community contributions.


yeah, but also even before they were much more active in starting a project than interested in maintaining it.


imsisms is becoming a strange problem I have yet to figure out how to deal with in my day-to-day conversations.


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