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We are not such a simple thing that we should be the result of a simple random collision. Like your body -everything is cut out according to its innate abilities with perfect measure and order, and put together with the finest art, in the shortest way, the best form, the lightest manner, and most practicable shape. Look at the clothes of birds, for example, and the easy way they ruffle up their feathers and continuously use them. Also, things are given bodies and dressed in forms in a wise manner with no waste and nothing in vain


Check out the giraffe's cardiovascular system. It seems you're alluding to intelligent design and there's a lot of very unintelligent "design" everywhere.


Perhaps that's true of your body, but my body was manufactured in the Soviet Union, and it shows.


Tell that to the laryngeal nerve which loops around your aortic arch, for no good reason. And to our inferior eye compared to the octopus. Amongst other things.


I'd like to speak to life's manager. The human body is full of dumb shit. Who designed these shit ass joints!


We demand right to repair. User servicible parts


> and put together with the finest art, in the shortest way, the best form, the lightest manner, and most practicable shape

Yeah nah. Ask any doctor or biologist. Humans and most other organisms are definitely not put together like that. It's pretty cool and it works very well, but many things are just... why? There's lots and lots of hacks, questionable cable management, backwards design, dead code, and leftovers from previous iterations.

Just because we're a pretty successful organism does not mean we are anywhere near the pinnacle of what can be achieved.


Look also at my ingrown toenail, which for some reason grows about three millimeters wider than the nailbed.

Omnipotence, indeed!


The complexity of current life could have still formed from incredibly simple means over time.


Where has our mind shown the capacity to be an engineer of the universe? With this limited intellect, we cannot encompass the beauty of the whole. Even if it were beneath a forearm-length nose, if only attention were paid to it, beauty could still be found!"


Notice that AI is not by evolution but the result of many scientists or works, devices etc.

If suppose evolution were to occur , then many wrong and absurd things would emerge or they would not have come into existence. But there is no disorder or mistake in the past or present and everything seems to be created perfectly.

"We see that in its existence, its attributes, and its lifetime, while hesitant among innumerable possibilities, that is, among truly numerous ways and aspects, each thing follows a well-ordered way in regard to its being in innumerable respects. Its attributes also are given it in a particular way. All the attributes and states which it changes throughout its life are specified in the same fashion. This means it is impelled on a wise way amid innumerable ways through the will of one who specifies, the choice of one who chooses, and the creation of a wise Creator. He clothes it with well-ordered attributes and states. Then it is taken out of isolation and made part of a compound body, and the possibilities increase, for they may be found in that body in thousands of ways. Whereas among those fruitless possibilities, it is given a particular, fruitful state, whereby important results and benefits are obtained from that body, and it is made to carry out important functions. Then the body is made a component of another body. Again the possibilities increase, for it could exist in thousands of ways. Thus, it is given one state among those thousands of ways. And through that state it is made to perform important functions; and so on. It progressively demonstrates more certainly the necessary existence of an All-Wise Planner. It makes known that it is being impelled by the command of an All-Knowing Commander. Body within body, each has a function, a well-ordered duty, in all the compounds that one within the other themselves become components of larger compounds, and has relationships particular to each, in the same way that a soldier has a function and well-ordered duty in his squad, his company, his battalion, his regiment, his division, and his army, and a relationship particular to each of these sections, one within the other. A cell from the pupil of your eye has a duty in your eye and a relationship with it, and has wise functions and duties in your head as a whole and a relationship with it. If it confuses these the tiniest jot, the health and organization of the body will be spoilt. It has particular functions with regard to each of the veins, the sensory and motor nerves, and even the body as a whole, and wise relations with them. That specified state has been given it within thousands of possibilities through the wisdom of an All-Wise Maker.

In just the same way, each of the creatures in the universe testifies to the Necessarily Existent One through the particular being, the wise form, the beneficial attributes given it among numerous possibilities. So too when they enter compounds, those creatures proclaim their Maker with a different tongue in each compound. Step by step till the greatest compound, through their relations, functions, and duties, they testify to the necessary existence, choice, and will of their All-Wise Maker. Because the one who situates a thing in all the compounds while preserving its wise relations, must be the Creator of all the compounds. That is to say, it is as though one single thing testifies to Him with thousands of tongues. Thus, from the point of view of contingency, the testimony to the existence of the Necessarily Existent One is as numerous, not as the number of beings in the universe, but as the attributes of beings and the compounds they form..."

So turn your vision again: do you see any flaw? Then turn your vision a second time; your vision will come back to you in a state dazzled and truly defeated(Quran)

state and point out, however much the human gaze tries to find faults, it can find none anywhere, and returns worn out to its dwelling, the eye, and says to the fault-finding mind who sent it: “I am worn out for nothing; there are no faults.” This shows that the order and regularity are most perfect


Disagree.

Counterpoint: allergies, birth deformities, cancer


exactly and clearly. Stray chance, dump nature ,blind force, unconscious casuality and the elements that without restriction are scattered in every direction -none of these can have any part in the most balanced,wise perspicacious, life giving ,orderly and firm deeds of the Creator. They are used ,rather by the command will, and power of the Glorious Doer as an apparent wil to conceal of His power.

According to the meaning of the verse: Who has created everything in the best way,(Quran)

everything is cut out according to its innate abilities with perfect measure and order, and put together with the finest art, in the shortest way, the best form, the lightest manner, and most practicable shape. Look at the clothes of birds, for example, and the easy way they ruffle up their feathers and continuously use them. Also, things are given bodies and dressed in forms in a wise manner with no waste and nothing in vain; they testify to their number to the necessary existence of an All-Wise Maker and point to that Possessor of Absolute Power and Knowledge


It is an established rule that, “If a being has unity, it can only have issued from a single being, from one hand.” Particularly if it displays a comprehensive life within a perfect order and sensitive balance, it demonstrates self-evidently that it did not issue from numerous hands, which are the cause of conflict and confusion, but that it issued from a single hand that is All-Powerful and All-Wise.

Therefore, to attribute such a well-ordered and well-balanced being which has unity to the jumbled hands of innumerable, lifeless, ignorant, aggressive, unconscious, chaotic, blind and deaf natural causes, the blindness and deafness of which increase with their coming together and intermingling among the ways of numberless possibilities, is as unreasonable as accepting innumerable impossibilities all at once. If we leave this impossibility aside and assume that material causes have effects, these effects can only occur through direct contact and touch. However, the contact of natural causes is with the exteriors of living beings. And yet we see that the interiors of such beings (like a Single Cell) , where the hands of material causes can neither reach nor touch, are ten times more delicate, well-ordered and perfect as regards art than their exteriors. Therefore, although tiny animate creatures, on which the hands and organs of material causes can in no way be situated, indeed they cannot touch the creatures’ exteriors all at once even, are more strange and wonderful as regards their art and creation than the largest creatures, to attribute them to those lifeless, unknowing, crude, distant, vast, conflicting, deaf and blind causes can result only from a deafness and blindness compounded to the number of animate beings.(from light of Quran)


It is a well-known fact that that well-proportioned, regular, perfect, and beautiful arts are based on a very beautiful program. A perfect and beautiful program, in turn, indicates a perfect and beautiful knowledge, a beautiful mind, and a beautiful spiritual faculty.That is to say, it is the spirit’s immaterial beauty which is manifested in art by means of knowledge. Thus, the universe, with its innumerable material fine qualities, is formed of the distillations of immaterial fine qualities pertaining to knowledge.


tiny animals like ants cannot know order and balance . They are like tiny robots. By carrying out duties far exceeding its own power, everything testifies to the All-Powerful One’s existence

"Yes, the All-Wise Creator summarizes the principles of the Clear Book in most beautiful form and abbreviated fashion and with a particular pleasure and through a special need, and includes them in beings. If everything acts thus with a particular pleasure out of a particular need, it unknowingly conforms to the principles of the Clear Book." Quran's Light


Just to be clear you don't know that 'ants cannot know order' and are tiny robots. You are just making this up.

You have to prove a statement like that. All evidence points to them being intelligent and you are just pushing a human oriented version of the world that minimizes the intelligent animals and insects that challenge your world view.


I agree.Obtaining this formula by observing is more difficult than obtaining it by proving it. Besides, it is an issue that is already needed in field work. If you have pen, paper and a good number system, it shouldn't be too difficult to find the formula with shapes.


I imagine back then things like number systems and methods of proving were just made up as they go.


Clay tablets and a stylus also less convenient than pen and paper.


That entirely depends on how close you are to high-clay-content muddy bank with a growth of reeds vs. how close you are to the nearest convenience store/office supply store.


Did I just find a new metric to put on my rental house evaluation checklist? Maybe! Haha


Human body and immune cells and cancer cells all are complex. It is clear that for blind force , unconscious nature, and aimless chance could in no way interfere in such percipient, delicate art, and conscious subtle wisdom, and perfect providential balance; they could not be their work. It is impossible. It is also utterly impossible that living creatures made themselves for then each of their particles would have to possess comprehensive knowledge and wisdom like a god, to be able to know , see and make all the parts of their bodies and form it , indeed , it would have to know ,see , and make everything in the world connected to it.

"Whoever created the mosquito's eye ,created the sun. Whoever ordered the flea' stomach, ordered the solar system." from Quran's light


I understand better this way. Consider a large circle in the middle in 2-D that exceeds the size of the square . The circles on all four sides will be smaller. In higher dimensions(>9), it means it has to be a similar shape.


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