HN is an English-only site, so here we are. I'd love to see a Romanian HN, but given the general level of discourse I've seen in most Romanian communities online (and in most communities online period), I'm not holding my breath.
Hello,
I'm from Romania, and I never knew we had such facilities.
History is always fascinating and is sad to see parts like this of the industry get destroyed. In every major city, where major industry was (they built quite a lot of things like tractors, cars), now we have Apartment Buildings. In the 90s, after the fall of communism, everything from the industry was bought by members of "Romanian Mafia"(people who had connections and knew how to buy them) and got sold as scrap.
My understanding is that there are healthy startup scenes in Bucharest and other cities, producing companies like https://uipath.com, so even though that old generation got scrapped, the future seems hopeful. And hopefully corruption is rooted out over time.
IT is booming to a great extent in Romania, thanks in large part to a tax cut for IT employment started around 20 years ago. There are still relatively few major success stories, in the sense that the vast amount of programmers are working at international corporations dev offices established in Romania, or in some large outsourcing houses; relatively few are working in startups or in Romanian-owned businesses that are creating their own products. UIPath is more of an exception, but the general situation does seem to be improving.
On the other hand, non-IT Romanian industry is very much struggling on almost all fronts, and most of it is nowhere near where it was in terms of competitiveness or just basic output compared to the communist area, thanks in large parts to what the GP was mentioning (a systematic dismantling for parts by opportunistic apparatchiks after the revolution, but also before the revolution itself, as money dried up and the demented regime became more enamored with grandiose projects rather than any practical economy).
The privatization of the inefficient communist industry was indeed a joke. But the free markets and the switch to capitalism allowed a mixture of home-grown entrepreneurial industry and foreign corporations and investments to more than replace and overtake the centrally-planned dying communist-era dinosaurs.
About 60% of GDP is coming from the Services sector, which were more or less non-existent before 1989; Industry overall is about 27%.
While there has definitely been growth, I doubt industry is more than twice in overall dollars compared to 1989, especially if we exclude IT.
Also note that the largest part of industry today is car making, one of the very few industries whose factories were not entirely sold for parts in the 1990s.
Pre-revolution industry was definitely unproductive and primitive in most sectors compared to EU or US counterparts, but many industries that were actually working, even badly, in the 1970s and 1980s basically don't exist at all today (pottery, clothing, many kinds of chemical industry).
Note that the country is still much much better off today than under the communist regime, in all ways measurable or not - I am in no way seeking to say that "it was better before".
There is, but a lot of romanians like to trash their country. Ops comment for instance is a common point of view around the so called psd electorate (founded by former communist party members). They claim that factories have been converted to shopping malls and apartment complexes to the detriment of industry. A false notion as the old industry was dead anyway. Plenty of new factories replaced the old. And indeed the software startup scene is developing as are the tech industry. Corruption is lower and romania has become a high income economy. Sadly many have been conditioned to repeat statements that demean their own country. A sad example of the Stockholm syndrome at national scale.
Most of the industry in the Eastern European block was completely unable to even sustain itself (or turn a profit) outside of the captive market of the Warsaw Pact though.
The leftist governments tried to keep some of it above water (with money grants and granted monopolies) in the name of "the jobs" at huge costs to the rest of the economy and tax payers. The resulting corruption and various party mafias are still marring those societies today.
But eventually various private enterprises grew, took over and became the success stories of today.
Similar story in Bulgaria. The country had a strong industrial and mechanised agricultural base, with an educated workforce to match. Every small village was electrified and had at least one nearby factory of a small scale. They also had kindergartens, schools, libraries, football stadiums and a small railway station nearby. The planning was far from perfect - factories were built far from the available resources, there were shortages and excesses in the whole chain, but at least the communist leaders recognised the need for modernisation of the society and the economy.
Fast forward to today, where we have an economic centralisation and pollution around 3 or 4 major cities. The economic profile is mainly made up of exports of raw goods and services for local use with a low added value. There is a disconnect between the educational system and the economy, the culture (music, theater) has steadily declined.
I think you're looking at gross and not real GDP. Regardless, GDP growth is probably what you should look at if you want to compare. On that metric, 1988 was actually the highest year of GDP growth and Bulgaria has never reached that level since
Can y’all show some dignity and not turn every thread where either of your countries are mentioned into bitching and whining? Show some dignity and surface the good in your respective countries. I know the eu conditioned you into thinking the two are do nothing sources of cheap labour and perpetual poverty. Both countries are orders of magnitude more developed, and indeed less corrupt and more democratic, than say india or russia yet you dont see people of those countries constantly bitch. The past is a done deal. Was there anything you can build upon? I know in romania there was a bit of innovation even under communism, including in electronics. Old industries died because of poor management and geopolitics. I know the tim-s and hc computers were popular in romanian schools, i grew up there and we did programming from an early age. If you ate roots feed by “mafias” i feel sorry for you but thats not everything and shouldn't dominate your lives.
GDP is a mere indicator based on the total cash sum of all transactions in an economy. Increased consumption of goods and services doesn't necessarily equate a healthier economy.
The former communist economy of Bulgaria was a very different beast altogether. Services were practically non-existent, or entirely in the gray sector where individuals were repairing cars or giving music lessons to children for cash and mutual favours. The structure of society eliminated the need for whole classes of services which are in the private sector today - think private healthcare, travel agencies, consulting agencies, analytic agencies, etc.
The current IT industry in Bulgaria is not a game-changer for the whole country. It consists mainly of outsourcing companies concentrated in Sofia, exploiting the relatively cheap labour there. Few local companies develop their own product and accumulate their capital locally.
- Soviet Union and Eastern block wanted Romania as a supplier of agricultural goods, which Romaina has refused while staying on the block and sticking to its own policy.
- EU wanted Romaina as a supplier of agricultural goods (and exported labor?), which Romania has accepted and realistically had no other choice.
> EU wanted Romaina as a supplier of agricultural goods (and exported labor?)
That is BS. EU never dictated Romania what industries to develop, as Romania is not a planned economy. Private enterprise decides what to create and build, just like in every other free country of the world.
Might I educate you that life just does not work that way.
Japan is a free country yet it had an unambiguous policy to industrialize and produce export goods as a government policy. Which has brought a lot of fruit, but if they didn't have one, Japan might have looked more like Philippines today.
Ditto South Korea whose chaebols (such as Samsung, LG, etc) were created by a government decree with "assigned moguls" to lead them.
Not to mention China which is pouring huge amount of effort not just into infrastructure but also industrial capacity.
I'm also quite confident that post-war France and Germany had programs to keep and develop their industrial capacity.
In this regard, not having a policy and letting private enterprises build whatever they want (and can) using their own money is a policy of itself.
> not having a policy and letting private enterprises build whatever they want (and can) using their own money is a policy of itself
It's called capitalism. And freedom.
But my point was: EU did NOT prevent member countries from investing and growing into whatever direction they want. No purely agrarian economies, no "labor exporters" (unless that's what they wanted, of course).
No, its not. What you are describing is called lack of governance. The western wold has entire industries spawned by government projects one way or another. Either by means of research or outright subsidies.
> EU did NOT prevent member countries from investing and growing into whatever direction they want
Yeah it did. The reason you and your brigade comrade cry over not seeing “factories” around cities is because eu regulation means using standards on par with the rest of the eu. This means the barrier to entry in various manufacturing industries is extremely high. Basically romania is forced to perpetually take eu funding to develop industries, often subsidising those of germany and other eu countries. Instead of starting small and iterating from there machinery used in romania needs to meet the same quality standards as those in richer countries. Surely you understand the issue here.
Why do we need another type of domains? IF you need a domain, just buy one normally. You have more control over it, and it is fully accessible from the open web.
Regardless of our thoughts on Web3, I find it amusing that the FBI asks you to provide all your personal info (including SIM/IMEI) to determine if you are "part of an investigation".
> You have more control over it, and it is fully accessible from the open web.
Do you want this again? [0] [1]. The so-called 'open web' is complete nonsense which technologists at large tech companies have taken control to push on their next grifting and surveillance products.
For example, Google Chrome being used as the dominant browser and Google already leading control over web standards, privacy violations and sabotaging other browsers like Firefox for their own gain.
