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I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not.

32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.






One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday.

But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday.

That extra hour those four days felt torturous, so it meant four days of feeling awful just so I could leave a few hours early on a day in which most people (and myself) already weren't working too hard anyway.

I hated it.

This was at a very low output insurance company, btw, so there often wasn't huge pressure to get things done quickly (new software releases were once a quarter, and IT would complain that two months lead time wasn't enough time to provision a single new server that was a clone of an existing server, as an example of how slow things moved), and the days dragged on way long.

I worked more high pressure startups before where I was often there for 9 or more hours by necessity to meet deadlines that didn't feel so bad.


I had a job that offered your choice of 4x10 or 5x8.

Many people took the 4x10 but then discovered they couldn't handle 10 hour days every day. Like you said, the last 1-2 hours were so unproductive they might as well have been not working.

So some people didn't even try to work those last 2 hours. They'd sit at their desks and watch things or play games, pretending to work when anyone came in. Kind of ruined it for everyone.


So you traded 1 whole day for 2h a day to do whatever you wanted but at the office?

Sounds like you spread Friday across the other days. Still a good deal to me, I'd take some online courses or something I wanted to do anyway in my free time.


> 2h a day to do whatever you wanted but at the office?

Oh, joy. I definitely wouldn't prefer a prison cell with a bed, tv, bookshelf, and privacy. What were those WFH people crying about?


> One year a company did mandatory 'half-day Fridays' during the summer where the company closed after a half day on Friday.

> But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday.

This is SOP at my work in Spain. It's fine for me, they're very flexible anyway. And I work from home so much that it doesn't really exhaust me.


I wouldn't have had an issue with it if I was WFH at that time, but I wasn't.

But I have been WFH the past six years and at this point I can't really handle going to the office for a full day anymore. Every once in a while I go into the office for something and after 4 hours I'm staring at the clock and itching to leave (even if I have work to do).

I usually duck out after about 6 hours, I say it's to beat the worst of the traffic (which is true, it's still pretty bad, I still have a 60-90 minute commute home), but also just because I feel super antsy by that point.

And my current office isn't terrible (but it's not good either). The one where I had to work 9 hour days that one summer was twice as sterile, with terrible dim flourescent lighting, and it was way too formal.


> But I have been WFH the past six years and at this point I can't really handle going to the office for a full day anymore. Every once in a while I go into the office for something and after 4 hours I'm staring at the clock and itching to leave (even if I have work to do).

Agreed. I have to go twice a week officially but I wouldn't know how to cope if I actually did that. I end up going once every two weeks or so and I come late and knock off early. And yeah like you say I'm super drained after it. One time my vision even started flashing when I was in the metro. Now I have to say I'm neurodivergent so these things take a lot out of me.

But the office has changed also. Before the pandemic I used to come 2-3 times a week but I had my own desk, sat beside colleagues who I actually worked with and that understood the thing about IT which is if I have my headphones on I don't want to be interrupted because I'm concentrating on something.

Now we have people from all departments all over the place, like sales and marketing blabbing on the phone. It's very distracting. We have to fight over desks (often people take my booked desk and other people book one and don't show up), I have to carry around my stuff like I'm in playschool. It just feels like it's just a show, it no longer accomplishes anything. It's a very hostile work environment now.

WFH is just so much better. I'm more relaxed, my head is clear, I have more time to chat with others on Teams, and if I need to do something at night I just grab my screen because it's all open anyway. There's much less barriers.


I had a similar experience. I worked for a place where if you worked 48 minutes more per day, you'd get every 2nd Friday off. This was a unionized place that was pretty strict about not working extra hours due to overtime rules. After being hired, I didn't partake in this but had pretty short workdays. I would start at 8:30 and then leave at 4. It was great. However, pretty much everyone in the company did the system to get the 2nd Friday off. So I tried switching to that and I felt the same. It just felt so much longer.

> But in order to do that we had to work 9 hour days Monday - Thursday.

We actually work 9hs here in Argentina (1h is for lunch, although you're probably still at the office and discussing work-related things anyways so...)

Is the common thing in the US to work 9-5 (8hs) with lunch included? Or do you guys just not take lunch?


I always saw half time Fridays as just as bad as Fridays as a full work day. Now you’re just kinda making fun of workers with that. If I’m already doing the commute and the shower and the crap I have to do in the morning what’s the point?Might as well get some real work in and do a full day

Agreed.

> But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier

One fewer day of needing to context-switch would be a major life improvement.


I would still take 40 hrs in 4 days vs 5 days. Full extra day is a blessing.

It's Japan, so they alread have 10 if not 12 hour days, a lot of which isn't work in any sense. Cutting day out of the week also means removing the near-obligatory after-work 'socialising'.

For many high focus, mentally taxing jobs going from 8 to 10 hour days won't make a difference as you're already done after 4-6 hours anyways.

I have had friends and family that work 4x10s or even 3x12s and they all vastly prefer the trade-off of more hours per work day for fewer days.

I’d still likely take the option, I just think it’s unnecessary. Productivity is ridiculously up since the 8 hour day was established, even since just two decades ago.

Tasks expand to take up the available time, even if usefulness doesn’t.

I suspect you’d see little loss in cutting down to 32/hr/week, and I suspect it would be more than made up for by the gains of giving people that extra day. So it may be a net positive.

I guess my main concern is that a lot of companies (not speaking about Japan here, just the US) might decide to use four days a week as a way to make people crunch four days thinking that having three days off would make up for that. And things wouldn’t really be any better.


That's the unfortunate bit about salaries.

If you took a 4x per week job, you'd usually get a 20% pay reduction; however, many jobs could be compressed to 4 days without any loss in productivity.


I did 4x10 and I found it horrible. During the four days, I didn't get to do anything other than work and commute. And the stupid thing was that my output (and that of my coworkers as far as I could tell) was not really higher with 10 hours than with 8 hours. Three day weekends are nice though.

i've worked 10s before, and it's alternately amazing and terrible. at an office job, answering emails and going to meetings, 10hrs is completely beyond my tolerance level.

but if you've got a project, and you can just put your head down and work, then 10s are really nice.


I agree. It's nice if you have something you can get into flow on.

The biggest issue with 10s is commute time. If you work 10s with an hour+ commute, that's just awful.


10s may help the commute, depending on duration of local rush hour. I've worked places where leaving at peak meant an hour drive home, and waiting an hour (or two) meant a 30 minute drive home.

Otoh, if you take mass transit, waiting an hour or two may put you into all stop trains which could increase your commute time.


Wouldn't 10's be better for a longer commute? Need to do it 4 vs 5 days?

less overall commute time, yeah, but it means your day might be literally nothing but work and sleep.

probably not long-term sustainable.


100% -- We've been promised more free time due to AI. Probably better to cash in now before this promise is rescinded.

We were with mechanical automation too. And computers. And every other advance.

Things improve, jobs take less time to do, so they give us more. But it’s the same number of hours so pay doesn’t go up.

We all get screwed.


But you and your company are now "family", so you can bask in the glow of generating more shareholder value "together"! Hurrah.

One of my previous jobs did just that: 10-hours days, 4 days a week. First as an experiment for a month. They found our that performance has grown across the board (engineering, sales, support, etc) and then made it permanent; everybody rejoiced.

It was so much easier since then.


> make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier

I'd much much rather work 4 x 10 than 5 x 8. Having a whole day without work makes a huge difference. Also, I find myself working 10 hrs a day anyway, so 5 x 10 (or more like 5 x 12).


Curious how this plays out and comments from anyone who works there now. From what I've read about Japanese work culture, there are many perks/benefits offered but most do not take it cause it's considered selfish etc.

not that much happier, no, but it's non-zero. esp with commute time, arranging lunch outside the home, parking or public transportation costs, childcare costs and all sorts of other little expenses that just vanish when you can stay home. Plus a 4x10 schedule doesn't result in a pay cut the way going from 5x8 to 4x8 would. My mom worked 4x10 as a nurse my entire childhood and loved the extra day.

From everyone I have ever known that was able to do the fewer days, even with same hours, it is still a game changer.

If they are just compress the 40 hours down to 4 days, then this won't work. I don't know how it works in Japan, but how the hell are you suppose to drop off and pick up kids with a 10 hour day, are schools and daycare even available 11-12 hours per day? They'd be increasing the stress four days a week to an ungodly level where families won't be able to function.

Most of these four-day workweeks are almost always bullshit, because they insist on keeping the same hours. I hope that's not the case here. Some companies have been experimenting with just slashing a day a week completely and it always increase productivity, retention and happiness.


Yeah, just implementing a 4 day week without clarity is horseshit

We've just implemented it for the winter and, while kind of good, the expectation is that you'll just get your work done with no conversation about capacity or differences between employees and departments and workloads.

I've actually said it ... I'd prefer 5 days with hybrid than a 4 day week

Who thought everyone wants a 4 day week? ... I just want the freedom to choose a balanced life and get a job done ... effectively giving the employer a day back!

I feel like we've learned nothing from Covid.

Having ranted that. For those implementing this properly. Kudos.


I disagree, hard.



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