There's no need to put fraud in quotes, or inappropriately add "apparent". In fact, let's capitalize it to drive the point home: elmu Definitely Committed Fraud to try to trick shareholders into forking over tens of billions of their own wealth, directly into his pockets. It was an open and shut case, and he was judged guilty of having done so. I doubt shareholders will pass it again*, since the way he got it to pass the first time was by defrauding them. Remember: elmu committed fraud (multiple times, this is just the latest!) There's no escaping that. He's a fraudster in the eyes of the law (though perhaps not in the eyes of his fans).
As for your investment, just imagine how much it's worth now that 50 billion dollars of company wealth is staying with the company and investing in even higher returns (!) rather than into elmu's pocket, so he can waste it on another twitter on which to shitpost. elmu having that money wouldn't have increased the stock price over him not having it, but the company having it, probably will. So congrats on your increased future wealth!
Remember, too, the judge found, according to the evidence, including elmu and tesla's own statements, that he was motivated to perform even without the additional 50 billion in compensation on top of his existing compensation. So there was never any risk of him performing differently with or without, as judged by the judge of the matter.
* Honestly, I doubt it'll even get to a vote, and that he'll even be offered the same package when he has to negotiate against new people representing the interests of shareholders, rather than "negotiating" (*wink*) against his friends.
I hope you take the time to understand why you are wrong when the compensation package with altered language is passed overwhelmingly by shareholders.
My Tesla investment has gone up 1200% and extra 10% means nothing to me. The deal we shareholders struck with the CEO in 2018 was more than fair and I was not cheated in any way. My daughters will never have to endure the drudgery I did thanks to Tesla, one of the greatest and fastest growing manufacturing companies in the history of the world. Weaseling out of the compensation package that made it happen because a judge thinks I didn't know Musk's brother wasn't an independent board member is absurd.
It's amazing to me that people can't just look at the numbers and understand why the pay package was a great deal. I hope that when the shareholders re-approve it you take a step back and try to understand why Tesla is such a special company.
Now imagine the good that 50 billion more dollars is going to do Tesla and shareholders, rather than elmu. Imagine: Tesla making more, better new models, instead of elmu buying gab and shitposting there next. Imagine: Tesla expanding their charger technology and network, instead of elmu bribing more sexual harassment victims with more racehorses ("hush-horses", perhaps? ;). Our families are going to do so much better now that that money is in the right hands, and I am happy for both of us: we're now both, literally, materially, better off by the 50B alone, soon to be moreso after Tesla invests it into Tesla instead of forking it over to a shitposting, sexually harassing fraudster.
> The deal we shareholders struck with the CEO in 2018 was more than fair and I was not cheated in any way.
It wasn't, as judged by the judge [0], and you were, as judged by the judge [0]. It sounds like you're saying that you're okay with elmu having defrauded you (inarguable at this point, what with the judge's judgement [0]). Or maybe that you don't like how the judge of the matter judged the matter. Both of those are different from him not doing it. Also, it wasn't struck by shareholders, it was struck corruptly between elmu and his friends, as judged by the judge [0], and then only approved by shareholders after elmu's defrauding of shareholders, as judged by the judge [0].
Yes, elmu is legally a multiple time fraudster, and no amount of bare assertions to the contrary will change that fact, and no amount of spouting "wrong!" at people who point that out will change that fact, and no amount of insulting me on HN will change that fact. Consider bringing references next time you make such a claim (especially about me personally), like I did, in citing the judgement which describes elmu's latest legal fraud [0].
You keep talking about the judgement. You don't have any clue about the actual award. The shareholders crushed it. I have financial freedom forever because of it. You think we're going to claw back what's fair because of a technicality.
50 billion is not important to Tesla's growth, we already run the most capital efficient R&D in history. Apple spends more than than that per quarter on R&D and they still fail to innovate. Tesla's manufacturing innovation success is down to innovation not spending. You could put Musk in charge of apple and he would save you 50 billion on the first day.
Look at Facebook, they were going full tilt on some weird virtual world, blowing 10 billion a quarter on it. Then after Musk fired 80% of twitter eliminating bloat, every tech company followed suit and now Facebook is absolutely killing it. Focus and leadership matter more.
The strange conflation of hatred for musk as a person with stupid ideas about what shareholders in his companies should do should stop. The dude is an asshole but he is hands down the greatest capital allocator in the history of the world.
That's to be expected in a HN story and discussion literally about the judgement. Two parties disagreed, and a judge listened to both sides, judged the disagreement, and came to a judgement on the facts of the case (stated in my above), and on which one of the parties was right, and which was wrong.
Maybe you think shareholders will re-approve an agreement re-negotiated with new directors, and this time he can't defraud shareholders, but I doubt it, and it's not really relevant here. The clawback is done, on behalf of shareholders. I appreciate the shareholder who brought the lawsuit on my behalf. I get everything I had before, plus 50 billion dollars worth of wealth is going to make us, rather than elmu, more money. Win-win (for us)!
The rest of the post is mostly fawning over musk [0][1] and opinions about the nature of reality which were carefully considered and then overruled by the judge. It really feels like some folks are having trouble accepting the realities that the judge laid down about how elmu defrauded shareholders. How else to say it?: If someone disagrees with anything the judge said in their judgement [2], that someone is incorrect.
The shareholders did indeed crush it, with this ruling. This was a shareholder lawsuit brought against elmu for acting against the interests of the shareholders, and he lost, because that's precisely what he did. You personally being okay with it, doesn't change that. The article here is a good link, but I encourage you to read the judgement against elmu in full – that is linked for you in my above post, as well as below [2].
Also, looks like you played the '"hatred" for musk' card. That gives me a bingo!
[0]: "You could put Musk in charge of apple and he would save you 50 billion on the first day – I think we both know he'd try to cost apple 50 billion too, like he did Tesla, which he'd spend on another social network to shitpost on instead of doing an actual job. It's not like he actually innovates ('lol look at my kitchen sink joke and anti-semetic conspiracy theories what an innovation'). Apple would keep on keeping on with or without this particular inflammatory figurehead, just like Tesla would.
[1]: the theory about his huge twitter failure causing their competitor to succeed, and this is somehow an indication of his good management, is... interesting :)
As for your investment, just imagine how much it's worth now that 50 billion dollars of company wealth is staying with the company and investing in even higher returns (!) rather than into elmu's pocket, so he can waste it on another twitter on which to shitpost. elmu having that money wouldn't have increased the stock price over him not having it, but the company having it, probably will. So congrats on your increased future wealth!
Remember, too, the judge found, according to the evidence, including elmu and tesla's own statements, that he was motivated to perform even without the additional 50 billion in compensation on top of his existing compensation. So there was never any risk of him performing differently with or without, as judged by the judge of the matter.
* Honestly, I doubt it'll even get to a vote, and that he'll even be offered the same package when he has to negotiate against new people representing the interests of shareholders, rather than "negotiating" (*wink*) against his friends.